# Qin Curtis Shi Lemay Huangdi is a FAKE? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061 "2012-01-01T18:05:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/181 "2012-01-05T00:24:21Z")
I’m generally pretty tactful, well considered, and level headed as far as atheists goes. I’m in a pit thread against a hysterical, so this isn’t my best work. You’re just making unreasonable demands and illogical special pleadings for your personal sacred cow. First, I don’t have an unwavering conviction that I’m right. If God scooped me up into the sky and said HEY, GOD HERE, BELIEVE IN ME, I would. I’d consider that I was insane but at that point I might as well go along with the God thing. It’d be pretty strong evidence. I would also believe in leprechauns if they suddenly appeared out of the woodwork one day, and everyone else saw them too. That is the exact opposite of being a true believer - my world view goes where the evidence lies, and I spend quite a bit of mental effort trying to break down my own biases to get a clear world view. Again, you give absolutely no weight to evidence or being correct. You just assume that if a person believes something, it’s equally valid to whatever else anyone else believes. As far as this: “The first rule of Humanism is “Proclaim the natural dignity and inherent equality of all human beings.” You are not doing that. You are calling most human beings infantile. Because of that I can not respect you.” What the hell nonsense is that? Did I sign some sort of pledge to be part of humanism? And even then, the conclusion you take from it is ridiculous. You’re essentially saying I can’t make judgements on anyone else’s belief, no matter what, or I’d be violating the prime directive of humanism. So if I mock people who believe in ghosts, or argue against 9/11 truthers, then I’m not respecting the “inherent equality of all human beings”, because hey, everyone’s view is equal and special, right? So I trust that you go to every thread in which one person battles a belief that is unsupported by evidence with a believe that is supported by evidence, and yell “YOU AREN’T TREATING YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS AS EQUAL!!! I CAN’T RESPECT YOU!!”, right? You’re boring. This is standard stuff. Religious people can’t argue their case on any sort of evidence or merits, so they just demand special treatment that no other belief in magical things gets. We don’t say astrology or conspiracy theories or ghost beliefs are off-limits and sacred and if you dare question them you’re a fanatic, but we do it constantly with religion. Why? Only because it’s more common and has greater social standing. Not on merit or logic. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/182 "2012-01-05T00:27:04Z")
What’s so bad about being insufferable, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/183 "2012-01-05T00:29:39Z")
I’m pretty sufferable. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/184 "2012-01-05T00:39:54Z")
You’re about on par with **Qin**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/185 "2012-01-05T00:41:03Z")
> [@DirkGntly](#): > > I find this disengenuous, at best. To immediately assume that an adherence to religion=being unintelligent shows considerable bias and ignorance. I think few would argue that C.S. Lewis was lacking intelligence, and yet he was dogmatically Christian in his viewpoints. The same can be said for a number of midieval and renaissance thinkers. Read more, dive deeper, formulate a better conclusion, SenorBeef. Although he does not cop to it in his autobiography of conversion, Lewis had a reputation as a skilled debater in favor of atheism prior to Prof. Tolkien dominating his mind with pipeweed of power. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/186 "2012-01-05T01:36:08Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > You’re about on par with **Qin**. In what way? This is typical religious stuff. I’ve given you several outs to make a case, like when I asked you to demonstrate why I should have more respect for your magic than someone else’s magic, or to demonstrate that I’m somehow a true believer when that’s obviously not the case. Instead, you just keep repeating the same assertions that I already debunked. Look, I treat all magical beliefs with no evidence the same. Astrology, healing crystals, religion, whatever. You might be right there with me on astrology and healing crystals - just fine when I assume I’m the right one on that - but then when I use the exact same logic against religion, it’s WOAH WOAH WOAH, we have to act like this particular magic has some special status even if you don’t think it’s true. You have to revere this magic, as if the jury is still out, and reasonable people can disagree, and the evidence is conflicted. You want a special unquestionable status for your magic. Justify it. If you can’t, then it’s pretty silly to get angry at people for dismissing your magic in the same way they dismiss other people’s magic. And further ridiculous to say “people who don’t believe in this magic are way more fanatical and blind believers than people who believe in this magic!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/187 "2012-01-05T01:57:43Z")
Looks like asking for evidence is _rude_ or something. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/188 "2012-01-05T02:58:22Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > What’s so bad about being insufferable, anyway? It’s why we’re on the innertubes and not interacting with real, PHYSICAL people. Some see that as a negative. I see it as being _Homo erectus 3.0_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/189 "2012-01-05T03:36:06Z")
Do you know who _ **else** _ is a fan of _Homo erectus_? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/190 "2012-01-05T03:52:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Do you know who _ **else** _ is a fan of _Homo erectus_? That movie sucked. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/191 "2012-01-05T04:15:51Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Do you know who _ **else** _ is a fan of _Homo erectus_? Every other _homo_? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/192 "2012-01-05T05:19:07Z")
> [@cckerberos](#): > > I suspect he chose the name more because LeMay killed a lot of Japanese in WW2, and not so much for his Cold War activities. Oh, well then. That’s much better. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/193 "2012-01-05T06:14:29Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Every other _homo_? Not that there’s anything wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/194 "2012-01-05T07:27:48Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > You said, > > So if I didn’t say it was an excuse and Qin didn’t offer that as an excuse why are you putting it out there like someone was excusing his behavior at all, much less for that reason? Because it was the _reason_ put out for his behaviour, the one that is supposed to elicit sympathy (and does for you). Hence an explanation put forward to deflect negative judgment - an “excuse”. You didn’t have to explicitly say it was an excuse to offer it as one - excuses aren’t just about completely eliminating responsibility, as you seem to be implying. You can have “an excuse” without that completely “excusing” behaviour - you seem to be meaning only the latter sense, I am meaning the former sense: just having some sympathy for Qin based on his being Aspie is using Asperger’s as an excuse for his behaviour. It is _not_ “excusing his behaviour”, which would mean, to me (and, it sound like, to you), _forgiving_ it, but it is _having an excuse_ for it - a sympathetic reason. The two senses of “excuse” are slightly different, and the verb form is more often the “forgive, pardon” sense. The noun form is more often the “alleviate negative judgement” sense, and that’s the sense I used it in. Asperger’s is no excuse for sexual harassment - because nothing is. It’s inexcusable. tl;dr: version - Are you so anal that you are going with an “I didn’t actually use that word” rebuttal? You said the fact that he was a kid with Aspergers made him sympathetic to you. I said it did no such thing for me. That’s the long and the short of it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/195 "2012-01-05T07:51:01Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I wish there was a fallacy named for the “both sides are equally bad!” nonsense you’re spewing. > > Maybe there is and I’m not familiar. False balance or the [balance fallacy](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Balance_fallacy). Relevant [Dinosaur Comic](http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=470) ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/196 "2012-01-05T07:52:53Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This is typical religious stuff. I’ve given you several outs to make a case, like when I asked you to demonstrate why I should have more respect for you How the fuck is anything I posted here “religious”? I am not arguing the existence of God here. I seriously do not give a shit about that. My point is that you being so damn sure of yourself makes you just as much of a douchebag as **Qin**. The fact that you continually think that I am arguing for religion just shows your lack of rationality and comprehension. My point isn’t that you’re wrong, it’s that you are a self important douchebag. There is no way in Hell you, **SenorBeef** , can argue with religous people in good faith. You just don’t have it in you. You are so damn passionate about your own atheism that you lack the rational detachment in order to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/197 "2012-01-05T08:15:31Z")
Yeah, Beef… stop being so _confident_. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/198 "2012-01-05T08:16:13Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > I think he lacks the basic reasoning skills to avoid false equivalencies. If there’s any false equivalency involved, it’s in giving too much credit to religion. 9-11 being a conspiracy or the moon landings being faked or world leaders secretly being alien lizard people are all much more plausible than the majority of religions. > [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > And on preview, I still think that. “Lizard people”? Really? [Reptilians](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilians). > [@](#): > > According to British writer David Icke, 5 to 12-foot (1.5 - 3.7 m) tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy directed at humanity.[7] He contends that most of the world’s leaders are related to these reptilians.[8] Icke’s conspiracy theories now have supporters in 47 countries and he frequently gives lectures to crowds of 2,500 or more.[9] American writer Vicki Santillano ranked the notion that “Reptilian humanoids control all of us” as the 10th most popular conspiracy theor A really silly conspiracy theory that is still far more plausible than, say, Christianity. Religion is the bottom of the intellectual barrel, one of the stupidest things you can believe in. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/199 "2012-01-05T08:48:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yeah, Beef… stop being so _confident_. Isn’t that **SenorBeef’s** complaint regarding **Qin**? Fucking hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2012, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061/200 "2012-01-05T09:16:30Z")
Is it? Heck, an improper amount of confidence on Qin’s part isn’t even in his top ten list of faults. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/qin-curtis-shi-lemay-huangdi-is-a-fake/608061.md?page=11)