# 'Quake Aid offered to Iran form US and or Israell **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363 "2003-12-28T02:48:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/21 "2003-12-28T20:48:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*In my opinion you are saying that you would like me, my wives and children, my whole family and all I can think of and all I don’t know and thus can not personally think of to be killed in an earthquake. > Thank you for being so kind to wish that we would meet God so quickly. > I don’t think I’m inclined to wish you the same. > > Salaam. A \*\* They allow you to have **wives** (pl) in Belgium? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/22 "2003-12-28T21:06:25Z")
**Aldebaran** There may be no helping the 25,000 under rubble or already dead. But I guarantee you that there are hundreds of thousands left homeless or now facing life without their primary breadwinner. Any humanitarian aid would be of service. It’s not like there’s gonna be food rotting on the dock. Israel said that they reserved the right to attack Iran if Iran was close to developing nuclear weapons. Israel has nuclear weapons, and hasn’t attacked Iran. If Iran is close to getting a bomb, and has not renounced their stated goal of using said bomb against Israel, Israel has every right to attack. And Iran has every right to respond. The fact that Israel hasn’t attacked yet means either that Iran isn’t that close, Israel doesn’t feel threatened, or they are showing restraint. Israel doesn’t have to develop a technology. They could attack today if they wanted. So I don’t understand how it is any worse for Israel to threaten preemptive strike _when the government of Iran says the exact same thing and you don’t say a word in otherwise_. The fact that Israel makes some noise and doesn’t do anything about it shows that they are in fact infintely better than Iran in this respect. Israel has the tools and shows restraint; Iran has publicly announced it is building the tools with the specific intention of attack. If I vowed to shoot you every day, but I didn’t have a gun, don’t you think you would take some action if I got in my car and went to the gun store? How about if I got out of my car, loaded a gun in plain sight, and came striding over to your house? How about if I beat on your door and announced “Now I’m going to shoot you!!” Apparently, it isn’t self defense in your book until I open fire. If you hadn’t already acquired a gun and were prepared to use it the moment I came at you with a gun, you are a fool. Debating the hypothetical aid given to Israel in event of a natural disaster is fruitless. Let me just say I would be very surprised verging on shocked if any country other than Jordan, Morocco, perhaps Egypt, and Turkey offered any kind of aid or sympathy whatsoever. I have a clearer picture of imams offering sermons about how Allah PBUH struck down the Zionist infidel pig dog, with no word offered edgewise from their respective governments or press. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/23 "2003-12-28T21:15:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Boscha > > So you are saying that earthquakes should wipe out the whole region or what exactly are you trying to bring across? > > In my opinion you are saying that you would like me, my wives and children, my whole family and all I can think of and all I don’t know and thus can not personally think of to be killed in an earthquake. > Thank you for being so kind to wish that we would meet God so quickly. > I don’t think I’m inclined to wish you the same. > > Salaam. A \*\* [list=1] [li]My name is **Bosda** , you frikkin comedian. Wipe the spittle off your keyboard & try again.[/li][li]Nobody said you should be killed. Ditto for your wife & kids. Keep your slanders to yourself. Your willingness to attribute evil intentions towards others reflects the ill intentions in your own heart.[/li][li]Anybody who refuses aid & assistance after an earthquake like that one, no matter the source, has a serious deficiency in common sense.[/li][li]So, therefore, Darwinian selection applies in the case of the earthquake. A nation that refuses help for its citizens, based on abtruse political/religious notions is killing off its own supporters. Soon, Iran may have no supporters, after fun little tricks like this one.[/li][li] I, like many Americans, regard the hostility of the various Middle Eastern States towards Israel with disgust. It is a stupid attitude to take. But hey! I guess it keeps the ordinary Middle Eastern man’s mind off the crushing poverty & corrupt governments so prevalent in the region. And that’s what the dictators are paying for, right? :rolleyes: [/li] [/list=1] ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/24 "2003-12-28T22:14:29Z")
Edwino, I’m not answering the other remarks you made since that is not the debate here. > [@](#): > > Debating the hypothetical aid given to Israel in event of a natural disaster is fruitless. Let me just say I would be very surprised verging on shocked if any country other than Jordan, Morocco, perhaps Egypt, and Turkey offered any kind of aid or sympathy whatsoever. I have a clearer picture of imams offering sermons about how Allah PBUH struck down the Zionist infidel pig dog, with no word offered edgewise from their respective governments or press. YMMV. \*\* Really? You actually think that the whole world is against Israel? Which sources are you using to come to such conclusion? And I have no idea where you live, but I suppose you consider it an obligation for governments and press to react on everything anyone who can be seen as having some kind of (local or more important, whatever) authority or influence in religious matters of any possible religion? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/25 "2003-12-28T22:17:03Z")
milroy, My wives have the same nationality as I have and live in the same country as I live and where we were born and raised and where we married under that countries law. So what is the relation between our marriage and your question about Belgian law? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/26 "2003-12-28T22:30:28Z")
**Aldebaran** I meant in the MENA region. Sorry if I was unclear. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/27 "2003-12-28T22:35:03Z")
**Aldeberan** Not meaning to Fight **Milroy’s** fights for him, but I believe that he was commenting on your (presumably) inadvertant use of the plural “wives” instead of the singular “wife.” It is assumed that polygamy is not practiced in Belgium. It was a joke… ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/28 "2003-12-28T23:03:57Z")
Bizz, [size=1]The plural was not inadvertent… [size] Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/29 "2003-12-28T23:12:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*Bizz, > > [size=1]The plural was not inadvertent… [size] > Salaam. A \*\* In that case, I want to move to Belgium. :dubious: Salami. M ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/30 "2003-12-28T23:18:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Michael Ellis \* > \*\*In that case, I want to move to Belgium. :dubious: > > Salami. M \*\* Q: What’s the penalty for bigamy? A: Two wives. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/31 "2003-12-28T23:31:05Z")
M. Ellis, I think you need to read my posts because you are missing some important information. Moving to Belgium wont help you. Sorry. * * * DanB. You are completely right. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/32 "2003-12-28T23:42:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by edwino \* > I meant in the MENA region. Sorry if I was unclear. So where in the MENA region did you hear such rants about Allah needing to destroy the Zionists? And why do you think every single Imam giving no matter which speech should be controlled by the local government and press? Do you think governments have nothing else to do then - together with the whole press who hasd also nothing else to do - heading to every single mosque every single day to hear what all those imams have to say? I know very well that now and then some lunatic utters a bit of lunaticism. And that a certain Western press jumps at such “releases” and spreads it willingly as if it represents “all Muslims”. With the aim to desinform a certain audience that wants to read about those lunatic Muslims, and of course because such cheap sensationalism sells so much better then no matter what . But you surely can look further then that? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/33 "2003-12-28T23:57:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*milroy, > > My wives have the same nationality as I have and live in the same country as I live and where we were born and raised and where we married under that countries law. > > So what is the relation between our marriage and your question about Belgian law? > > Salaam. A \*\* Serious question. From your posts, I gathered that you spend time in both Belgium and your unnamed Arab country. So I was just wondering how Belgian law treats your bigamy? For example, if you were to die in Belgium, who would inherit your money? Or if you were sick, who would make medical decisions for you? If you were to go on welfare or disability, would both of your wives collect? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/34 "2003-12-29T00:04:33Z")
milroy, regarding your questions : can you open a separate thread for this because I don’t think it has anything to do with the intentions of the OP. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/35 "2003-12-29T00:27:44Z")
Here you go: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=231861](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=231861) ---
**Author:** ![1stChristian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/f1d935/32.png) [@1stChristian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1stChristian)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/36 "2003-12-29T00:38:24Z")
Stoneburg, applauds (post 170). ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/37 "2003-12-29T01:00:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 1stChristian \* > \*\*Stoneburg, applauds (post 170). \*\* Is that a haiku? ---
**Author:** ![edwino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@edwino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwino)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/38 "2003-12-29T02:17:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > So where in the MENA region did you hear such rants about Allah needing to destroy the Zionists? > > And why do you think every single Imam giving no matter which speech should be controlled by the local government and press? Do you think governments have nothing else to do then - together with the whole press who hasd also nothing else to do - heading to every single mosque every single day to hear what all those imams have to say? Note that I didn’t say that. Note that I took pains not to paint with a broad brush. Note that I didn’t call for silencing these imams. In the event of a devastating natural disaster in Israel, I just think that the most likely response of most of those governments will be resounding silence. The lunatic imams (your word) will continue hateful speech against Israel (surely I don’t need to produce cites for that?), probably with some variation on God has struck them down or something along that line. Given the response of the Iranian government to offers of Israeli help – they loudly and vehemently rejected such aid – I don’t expect something more. If the situation were reversed I wouldn’t expect heartwarming change. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/39 "2003-12-29T03:11:14Z")
> [@](#): > > In rare direct contact between Washington and Tehran, US Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and Iran’s permanent representative to the UN, Mohammad Javad Zarif, held telephone talks about aid. [http://www.indianexpress.com/full\_story.php?content\_id=38153](http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=38153) Why the second tier contact? Does the Bush admin not realize how far direct contact from Bush himself might have gone in the eyes of the Iranians? Another missed oppurtunity. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2003, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363/40 "2003-12-29T03:30:10Z")
The opportunity likely wasn’t there. Low level talks have gone on for a long while, and even Khatami has stated that things have not developed enough for direct communication between the two heads of state in either country. The mullahs, for instance, remain deeply skeptical and jumping straight into direct contacts could cause another spasm of reactionism from the theocracy, which is not very helpful at the time being. As critical as I have been in the administration’s dealings with Iran, this was the right way to do it at this time. In this particular case, slow and steady really will win the race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quake-aid-offered-to-iran-form-us-and-or-israell/221363.md?page=3)