# 'Quando omni flunkus, moritati' (latin translation help requested please) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 6, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720 "2018-12-06T23:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/21 "2018-12-07T22:17:18Z")
Didn’t they let women in during the final meeting? IIRC, this is what prompted the Men’s Prayer to change to “I’m a man, but I changed, because I had to. Oh well.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/22 "2018-12-07T22:48:39Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > That one definitely can’t be correct, because the (jussive/hortative) subjunctive would be “simulemus”, with a long “e”. So “mortuos simulemus”. That could work too. Except the OP source phrase was second person instead of first person. No context to tell whether singular or plural, which is why I gave both. > [@](#): > > We also haven’t considered such phrases as “irritis ceteris remediis” I just wanted to “Keep It Simple Simon.” ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/23 "2018-12-07T23:05:49Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Why would it be mortuus and not mortuum ? Stative verbs take a complement in the nominative, don’t they? > [@DPRK](#): > > Also why not “alia omnia” vs “totus alius”, “defecit” vs “defuit” ? I’m not claiming any particular expertise or knowledge; I would honestly learn a lot from a detailed explanation. _Alia omnia_ means ‘all the other things’. _Totus alius_ means ‘All else’. Omnia means all of several things, like “omnium gatherum.” Totus means whole. [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnis#Latin](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/omnis#Latin) Usage notes In separating _omnis_ from _totus_ it can be useful to remember Quintilian’s sentence (Ins.Or.8.3.70), “minus est tamen _ **totum** _ dicere, quam _ **omnia** _” (“It is less to say **the whole** , than **all the parts**.”). When I was searching for the verb to fail, I came across _desum_/_deesse_, saw that it accurately expressed the sense I had in mind, and stopped looking. Of course, _defecit_ would work as well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/24 "2018-12-07T23:13:28Z")
Come to think of it, omnia and defecit are probably the better word choices. ::winking and pointing to **DPRK** :: ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/25 "2018-12-08T00:22:58Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Stative verbs take a complement in the nominative, don’t they? What do I know; in Lewis & Short under _simulo_ IIα there are quotes like “tridui uiam aberat; ubi, quo minus mirum esset uno eodemque loco statiua eum tam diu habere, aegrum simulabat” and “non simulare mortem verbis, re ipsa spem vitae dare” and other examples of simulo + accusative It’s true that in a sentence like “bonus sum” one has to use the nominative, but that does not apply to this use of “simulo” if I have understood the dictionary entry. ETA Cicero must be spinning in his tomb somewhere due to our butchery of his beloved language… ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/26 "2018-12-08T01:48:27Z")
I think you want an ablative absolute in there - everything having failed, play dead Something along the lines of _Omnibus defaciendibus, mortem simula_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/27 "2018-12-08T04:38:57Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > What do I know; in Lewis & Short under _simulo_ IIα there are quotes like “tridui uiam aberat; ubi, quo minus mirum esset uno eodemque loco statiua eum tam diu habere, aegrum simulabat” and “non simulare mortem verbis, re ipsa spem vitae dare” and other examples of simulo + accusative OK, you’re right. I missed the accusative the first time I looked it up. So it’s mortuum simula mortuos simulate keeping it in the second person. OP, did you intend it as singular or plural? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/28 "2018-12-08T11:12:26Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I think you want an ablative absolute in there - everything having failed, play dead > > Something along the lines of _Omnibus defaciendibus, mortem simula_. _defaciendibus_ is wrong - that’s the gerund. You’d want _defectis_, so _Omnibus defectis, mortem simula_ ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Twit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alpha_twit/32/265_2.png) [@Alpha\_Twit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alpha_Twit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/29 "2018-12-08T11:54:58Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > OP, did you intend it as singular or plural? Prefer to to go plural but I can go either way as long as the distinction in translation is explained to me. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/30 "2018-12-08T16:24:43Z")
mortem simula ‘feign death’ mortuum simula ‘play dead’ I think the latter fits the OP better. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/31 "2018-12-08T16:38:20Z")
I’m going to update my suggestion to _Aliis defectis mortuum simulate_. _All_ is understood and _aliis_ is ‘other things’. _Mortuum_ is a dead body, whereas _mortem_ is death itself. _Simulate_ is the plural imperative. ---
**Author:** ![ALOHA\_HATER](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/76d3ee/32.png) [@ALOHA\_HATER](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ALOHA_HATER)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/32 "2018-12-08T17:57:38Z")
It’s “mortuum simulāre,” quartz, I’m sure simulate was a typo. I wanted to use “agere” since it seems like ‘playing dead’ is like playing a theatrical role, but an expert told me mortuum simulare, as others have here. And you definitely don’t want to use an ablative absolute here. I tried at a better translation myself, and didn’t end up fully confident of it. But I will point you to Meissner’s phrasebook, §V-7 ‘Misfortune-Fate-Ruin.’ I like “fortunae cedere.” [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/50280/50280-h/50280-h.htm#Index\_V\_7](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/50280/50280-h/50280-h.htm#Index_V_7) ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/33 "2018-12-08T20:12:41Z")
> [@ALOHA\_HATER](#): > > It’s “mortuum simulāre,” quartz, I’m sure simulate was a typo. No typo. Simulare is the infinitive; I was using the plural imperative. > [@](#): > > I tried at a better translation myself, and didn’t end up fully confident of it. But I will point you to Meissner’s phrasebook, §V-7 ‘Misfortune-Fate-Ruin.’ I like “fortunae cedere.” Ooh! I like that. It would be _fortuna cessa mortuum simulate_. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/34 "2018-12-08T21:49:23Z")
I feel like we should throw in a future imperative 🙂 Ubi alia omnia defecerint, mortuum simulato ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/35 "2018-12-08T23:59:37Z")
Number agreement: Pick either singular _mortuum simula_ or plural _mortui simulate_, not mix them. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/36 "2018-12-09T00:41:41Z")
number + case + gender agreement; accusative plural of _mortuus_ is _mortuōs_ ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/37 "2018-12-09T03:47:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > number + case + gender agreement; accusative plural of _mortuus_ is _mortuōs_ :smack: Thanks; I realized that later and was coming back to correct it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/38 "2018-12-09T10:35:25Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Number agreement: Pick either singular _mortuum simula_ or plural _mortui simulate_, not mix them. Ah yes. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/39 "2018-12-09T23:18:09Z")
So, is this the fair copy for our translation by committee? _Omnibus defectis, mortuos simulate_ Except that the OP had “all else,” making it _Omnibus aliis defectis_, right? _Omnibus aliis defectis, mortuos simulate_ ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720/40 "2018-12-09T23:49:45Z")
**ALOHA HATER** said we do not want an ablative absolute with this type of command as it does not have the intended meaning? So we should use ubi or some other relative particle? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quando-omni-flunkus-moritati-latin-translation-help-requested-please/825720.md?page=3)