# Quartz **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840 "2019-02-19T16:51:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/121 "2019-02-23T01:32:53Z")
As a semi-interested Yank, y’all really should have a higher standard for highly-consequential referendums like Brexit. Perhaps a similar threshold to the repeal of a constitutional amendment in the U.S… The vote to join the EU garnered 67%. Two-thirds seems a reasonable requirement to over-ride it. Also, I heard a rumor that, post-Brexit, it’s magically going to be the 1950s again in the UK. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/122 "2019-02-23T03:15:35Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Perhaps my understanding of Kipling’s _oeuvre_ is lacking to the point of incompetence, but I, for one, somehow caught the idea that, in his view, the “white man” portion of that phrase pertained exclusively to Englishmen, and that the phrase as a whole encompassed (to a greater or lesser extent) everyone who was _not_ an Englishman. Heaven’s no, lad! That would mean Kipling was prejudiced! He meant wogs, fuzzy-wuzzies, Abos, that sort! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/123 "2019-02-23T03:46:30Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > I totally disagree. The leave campaign was heavily run on the idea that we would be better off economically out of the EU, and that’s what many people voted for. That stuff about “all this money could go to the NHS instead”, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/124 "2019-02-23T03:52:46Z")
Whether the UK is a net contributor to the EU budget or not falls under the same “how do you count things” that we play a lot in Spain: in terms of raw money, if your country/region is at a net gain, you’re the part that’s enormously fucked up in so many other respects (healthcare, education, infrastructure) that they’re funneling money in hoping that you’ll be able to handle most of it in building up such basic services locally. Most of a country/the EU’s “payback” isn’t in raw money but in services. How much did each individual country get out of each individual trade deal made by a group in a given year, or of a multi-country project such as Erasmus, is a lot more difficult to calculate than just looking at direct e-transfers. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/125 "2019-02-23T07:49:29Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Also, I heard a rumor that, post-Brexit, it’s magically going to be the 1950s again in the UK. Is that true? Nah. In the 1950s we had trade links worldwide and took advantaged of the European mainland being a war ravaged pit. Many Brexiters want to go back to an imagined 1950s though. When Britain could send gunboats to scare off Johnny Foreigner, when everyone knew their place and there weren’t no coloured faces in the streets. Nor any poofs, either. It was pointed out to me a while ago that when Brexiters talk about sovereignty, and taking back control, they don’t really mean a desire for the UK to conduct its affairs unmolested. They actually yearn for the days when Britain could interfere in others without penalty. Hence why they’re surprised when the EU says no to their demands for the UK to be in the Single Market but not subject to regulations or pay into it. Instead, if we no-deal, we’ll have _zero_ trade links. It’ll be the European mainland having worldwide trade links and the UK being a divided weakened dump. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2019, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/126 "2019-02-23T10:48:00Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Yet you are unable actually to respond to the actual facts… so no in fact I am not wrong. You made a series of incorrect assertions about the actual regulatoin which you clearly never had really read. > > The mocking of your stupidity about the English only internet is highlighting only your stupidity of the provincial non understanding you have. Firstly, understand that I am only continuing to engage with you, you colossal prick, in case others imagine that a lack of response from me means you have won the argument. The facts of this matter are that in some industries, regulation already prevents sales to non-residents (no imaginary “English only Internet” necessary), so to have an EU-imposed ombudsman is not only pointless but actively unhelpful, since all it does is direct complaints back to the existing national ombudsman. This is just one example of unnecessary and unhelpful EU interference to which I object. But you are so blinded by your obedience to the EU project you just don’t see it. Sucks to be you, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/127 "2019-02-24T08:21:24Z")
Actually (and I rather suspect to far more “others” than just me), it’s your apparent hostility to what you term “_the EU project_” that’s the most significant indicator of her winning of the argument (the “English only internet” tangent strikes me as somewhat esoteric). ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2019, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/128 "2019-02-24T09:34:11Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Actually (and I rather suspect to far more “others” than just me), it’s your apparent hostility to what you term “_the EU project_” that’s the most significant indicator of her winning of the argument (the “English only internet” tangent strikes me as somewhat esoteric). The English only internet is simply mocking his pig headed little englandism about a subject which is the Online Sales to Consumers, an issue which the EU was/is trying to address “friction” - that is internal barriers by making it more easy for non resident in one member state to figure out the next member state and thus boost the trade. It is good economic action - reducing information barriers. The actual EU regulation, which I found after having doubts about his posting what sounded like the usual little Englander page 3 reader tabloid rendition of a regulation, as summarized by the [leading English law firm Bird & Bird](https://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2017/global/eu-online-dispute-resolution-all-bark-and-no-bite): > [@](#): > > On 15 February 2016, the EU’s Online Dispute Resolution platform (“ODR”) came into force via EU Regulation No. 524/20131. The ODR makes it mandatory for **online traders** that \*\*offer goods/ services to consumers via a website \*\*or other electronic means to include an **easily accessible electronic link to the EU’s ODR website on their sales platform** , as well as to provide consumers with a direct contact e-mail address. The aim is to provide an easy, low-cost process of settling contractual disputes regarding goods or services supplied, without the parties having to resort to court. The emphasis added. For entities with Online sales to **consumers**. Must have **accessible electronic link** to what is just a clearing website which gives multi language direction to the Altenrative Dispute Resolution options (which rare the national ones, by the way there are 43 options in England) - to help the consumers The terrible horrible burden of it, the tyrrany of the Brussels bureaucrats - imposing on the English traders the website link to allow poor consumers to more easily find options for the ADR. > [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > Firstly, understand that I am only continuing to engage with you, you colossal prick, in case others imagine that a lack of response from me means you have won the argument. I do not care who “won” an argument, but it is very telling your angry inability to admit the factual errors and the very typical Brexiter insitence on continuing to believe in false misrepresentations you have been sold in between reading the page three editions of tabloids > [@](#): > > The facts of this matter are that in some industries, regulation already prevents sales to non-residents You did assert that in the other thread. And yet \*\*had not one single example \*\*of such a thing applying to **consumer sales** online. No you disappeared on this point. The regulation applies to shops selling **online to consumers.** As other commentators in such thread, no one could think of what the fuck you are pretending to talk about as no consumer good cames to mind. Now, you can take the opportunity go beyond the angry page 3 tabloid bluster and provide some facts and references as I bothered to do (although to no effect since you refused to read them…). Of course since the national parliament can make exceptions if there is in fact some strange English regulation against a cheese shop prevents English Cheese from being sold to filthy non-English… As I quoted from [Bird and Bird,](https://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2017/global/eu-online-dispute-resolution-all-bark-and-no-bite) the English law firm with the analysis (which you got so angry about) in that thread > [@](#): > > **Purpose of the ODR platform** > > The ODR platform arose out of an EU initiative to provide a simple and low-cost means of resolving disputes arising out of the sale of goods/ services, particularly in the context of cross-border sales. The ODR allows consumers to submit their contractual dispute to the platform and to start an Alternative Dispute Resolution (“ADR”) procedure online. > > The platform works essentially as a referral system – it recommends an appropriate dispute resolution body to the parties, automatically submits a consumer’s complaint to the chosen dispute resolution body and in some cases allows consumers/ traders to access communications from the dispute resolution body via the platform. However, substantive adjudication of the dispute is carried out by the dispute resolution body itself – the platform is simply a conduit. There are more than 260 dispute resolution bodies registered on the ODR, with over 40 for the UK alone. > > **The procedure** > > Once a consumer submits a complaint through the ODR platform, the relevant online trader is automatically notified and has a period of 10 days within which to reply. Should the trader decline to take part in the ODR process, the complaint will be automatically closed within 30 calendar days, with no further action taken. The consumer may still have other routes of redress open to them outside of the ODR process. > > Once the trader has replied, both parties have thirty calendar days from the submission of the complaint to agree on a dispute resolution body. The ODR platform will provide recommended dispute resolution bodies, however the parties may choose outside of this recommended list. If the online trader is required to use a particular dispute resolution body (for example due to a regulatory obligation) it should explain this to the consumer (there are further notification requirements that apply to the online trader under the Regulation if this is the case). If the parties cannot agree on a particular dispute resolution body, the complaint will be automatically closed within 30 calendar days with no further action taken. > > Once the parties have agreed on a dispute resolution body, the ODR platform will provide the body with the consumer’s complaint. The body then has three weeks to inform the parties of whether it accepts jurisdiction to handle the complaint. > > Once the dispute resolution body has accepted jurisdiction, it will handle the complaint in line with its usual procedures, and must offer a suggested solution with 90 days, in accordance with its own procedures and practices. The final decision of the body will be available to access on the ODR platform. Whether or not the suggested solution is legally binding on the parties depends upon the rules of the particular dispute resolution body handling the complaint. > > **Benefits of the platform** > > If a trader is notified of a consumer complaint through the platform, the most advisable course of action is for the trader to contact the consumer directly to resolve the issue, particularly if the complaint is straightforward3. > > However, if the trader wishes to dispute the complaint (and the complaint has some legal merit), engaging with the ODR process is a low-cost (and potentially non-binding) option that allows the parties to attempt to resolve the issue outside of pursuing or defending legal proceedings. > > It should also be noted that in some EU Member States, traders can use the platform to submit complaints against consumers, where the chosen dispute resolution body has the jurisdiction to adjudicate on such a dispute. So the very logic of this is to help consumers have a tool to navigate choices outside of their home country to build confidence for the internet sales… > [@](#): > > (no imaginary “English only Internet” necessary), so to have an EU-imposed ombudsman is not only pointless but actively unhelpful, since all it does is direct complaints back to the existing national ombudsman. No it is not **actively unhelpful** as in your own little England itself there are a great multiplicity of choices (43) and it is not at all evident that foreign consumer Of course a regulation for the entire EU has to be general if it is not to be madly complex and as you insistently ignore the actual application of these things must go through the national parliament, which **if there is a reason for a carve out can make one** > [@](#): > > This is just one example of unnecessary and unhelpful EU interference to which I object. it is a great example of the irrational and unfactual little england nationalist rage and provincialism - exaggerating a simple little obligation for a **website link** (OMG, a website link, tyrrany against English freedoms!!! No need to help the dirty forienger buyers. Only English go to our website… Great English Internet, since we can adopt from Huwaie:D). The essence of your response is in the end “Fuck the furriners fuck them we have english things and do not need foreign…” it is and has been an irrational misrepresentation of a minor regulation merely requiring access to the site which is supposed to help reduce the information assymetry. > [@](#): > > But you are so blinded by your obedience to the EU project you just don’t see it. Sucks to be you, I guess. I would say it sucks to be English about to cut off their own noses over an irrational reaction to what are minor irritations or more often deliberate misrepresentations by the populist politicians selling you the fantasy tripe of 1950 & old empire. Otherwise, I am only a person who follows the rational economic analysis and facts, as presented the rational actors - like Bird & Bird who were not getting their information from page 3 tabloids. ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/129 "2019-06-01T11:59:48Z")
We’re all a bunch of cunts, apparently. Hahahaaaaaaaaaa ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/130 "2019-06-01T14:37:46Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > We’re all a bunch of cunts, apparently. > > Hahahaaaaaaaaaa I believe the correct term is a _swarm_ of cunts. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/131 "2019-06-01T14:56:15Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > We’re all a bunch of cunts, apparently. > > Hahahaaaaaaaaaa Did this come from anywhere in particular…? ---
**Author:** ![Malden\_Capell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malden_capell/32/5274_2.png) [@Malden\_Capell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malden_Capell)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/132 "2019-06-01T15:09:08Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > Did this come from anywhere in particular…? Latest fracas in the Brexit thread in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/133 "2019-06-01T15:58:20Z")
> [@Malden\_Capell](#): > > Latest fracas in the Brexit thread in Great Debates. How about a link? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/134 "2019-06-01T20:24:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > How about a link? [Link.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21672784&postcount=1466) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840/135 "2019-06-01T20:52:41Z")
> [@What will the UK do wrt Brexit?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1308): > > Your statements mark you as a spoiled child who’s crying because she hasn’t got her own way. > [@What will the UK do wrt Brexit?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-will-the-uk-do-wrt-brexit/829799/1324): > > I’m bowing out of this thread. > > Bluntly you’ve been a bunch of cunts, the mods have done fuck all, and it got to me and I had a sleepless night. Life’s too short so carry on enjoy the death of democracy. The irony, it burns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quartz/829840.md?page=6)