# Quebec Court overturns father's grounding of 12-year-old kid
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 19, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447 "2008-06-19T06:25:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/1 "2008-06-19T06:25:47Z")
Some stories just [pit themselves](http://www.smh.com.au/news/unusual-tales/court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12yearold/2008/06/19/1213770765707.html):
> [@](#):
>
> A Canadian court has lifted a 12-year-old girl’s grounding, overturning her father’s punishment for disobeying his orders to stay off the internet, his lawyer said.
>
> The girl had taken her father to Quebec Superior Court after he refused to allow her to go on a school trip for chatting on websites he tried to block, and then posting “inappropriate” pictures of herself online using a friend’s computer.
Fortunately the parent is appealing.
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### Author:  [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/2 "2008-06-19T09:19:28Z")
It seems to me the relevant sentence is somewhat further on in the article:
> [@](#):
>
> Beaudoin noted the girl used a court-appointed lawyer in her parents’ 10-year custody dispute to launch her landmark case against her dad.
And indeed, it isn’t quite as simple [as it appears](http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=597169).
The child lives with her mother after some ongoing conflict inthe father’s home. So he still has legal custody (pending hearing) but she doesn’t live there. Her mother said she could go, but the school required both parents to sign. So the girl, with the mother’s support, filed a motion in the decade long litigation which has gone on between her parents.
When parents go to war over custody and maintain this level of conflict, they mustn’t be surprised that their children take the same route. Particularly if the other parent is egging them on.
I expect it will stand up on appeal.
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### Author:  [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/3 "2008-06-19T11:58:18Z")
I can see the incident as being fuel for the custody battle, but I still don’t see how the court should be directly intervening in the grounding. It’s not like the father locked her in the basement or something.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/4 "2008-06-19T12:26:08Z")
The guy I feel sorry for in this is the judge. You just know that he’s going to have people snickering about this behind his back for years.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/5 "2008-06-19T12:38:28Z")
I don’t know how parental rights work in Canada, but I can see the equity in the situation (taken antiseptically, of course).
The fact that the father is not the one making day-to-day decisions in the life of the child and is withholding consent for what could be seen as reasons of legal gamesmanship leads me to side with the judge in that it’s the mother that should be making the decisions without living in fear of the father’s veto power.
The fact that what the father did (in my eyes, anyway) is completely justified (ho-baggery in juveniles is grounds for grounding in MY world) makes the situation doubly shitty, because this is a case where situational ethics (which I’m not inclined to support) actually has a pretty good foundation.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/6 "2008-06-19T12:53:02Z")
[QUOTE=Askance]
posting “inappropriate” pictures of herself online using a friend’s computer
[/QUOTE]
The way those pictures showed her fingering that keyboard and glancing at that monitor was positively indecent.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/7 "2008-06-19T14:01:00Z")
Everybody involved in this case needs a timeout.
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### Author:  [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/8 "2008-06-19T14:07:18Z")
I would also like the court to find that the the plaintiff’s little brother, a co-conspiritor to the grounding, is a poopy-head your honor.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/9 "2008-06-19T14:27:33Z")
So much for the cherished legal principle of “because I _said_ so!”
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### Author:  [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/10 "2008-06-19T15:18:40Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
So much for the cherished legal principle of “because I _said_ so!”
[/QUOTE]
Actually, that one has pretty much been held up as precedent. See ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1977), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1978), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1979), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Jan 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (March 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Dec 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1981), _et al_. Appeals to Judge ArizonaTeach’s Mom found in favor of ArizonaTeach’s Dad.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/11 "2008-06-19T15:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach]
Actually, that one has pretty much been held up as precedent. See ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1977), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1978), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1979), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Jan 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (March 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Dec 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1981), _et al_. Appeals to Judge ArizonaTeach’s Mom found in favor of ArizonaTeach’s Dad.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but that’s in US court. This case is in Canada. 😃
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/12 "2008-06-19T15:45:55Z")
[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach]
Actually, that one has pretty much been held up as precedent. See ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1977), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1978), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1979), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Jan 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (March 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Dec 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1981), _et al_. Appeals to Judge ArizonaTeach’s Mom found in favor of ArizonaTeach’s Dad.
[/QUOTE]
Remember, if your appeal is denied, the appellant must immediately file a writ of _I hate you!_
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/13 "2008-06-19T15:49:56Z")
[QUOTE= ArizonaTeach]
Actually, that one has pretty much been held up as precedent. See ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1977), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1978), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1979), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Jan 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (March 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (Dec 1980), ArizonaTeach vs ArizonaTeach’s Dad (1981), et al. Appeals to Judge ArizonaTeach’s Mom found in favor of ArizonaTeach’s Dad.
[/QUOTE]
You should have had more effective counsel.
Nowhere in any of those opinions do I see reference to concurrent precedent, i.e., “Jimmy’s dad lets HIM do it!”
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/14 "2008-06-19T15:58:06Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Nowhere in any of those opinions do I see reference to concurrent precedent, i.e., “Jimmy’s dad lets HIM do it!”
I’m going to deny that motion on the grounds that Jimmy’s Dad does not have jurisdiction in this venue.
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### Author:  [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/15 "2008-06-19T16:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
I’m going to deny that motion on the grounds that Jimmy’s Dad does not have jurisdiction in this venue.
[/QUOTE]
It should also be noted as a point of fact that if Jimmy’s Dad let him jump off of a cliff, that appellant would not similarly want to do the same.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/16 "2008-06-19T16:23:29Z")
The court further finds that the defendent’s argument that, “He didn’t ask to be born,” is not persuasive in establishing the court’s lack of jurisdiction in the matter.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/17 "2008-06-19T17:11:22Z")
“I’m not touching the limit of the restraining order. I’m not touching the limit of the restraining order.”
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/18 "2008-06-19T17:33:28Z")
“I hereby sentence you to go to your room, young man”
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/19 "2008-06-19T18:50:53Z")
[QUOTE=Madd Maxx]
I would also like the court to find that the the plaintiff’s little brother, a co-conspiritor to the grounding, is a poopy-head your honor.
[/QUOTE]
Counsel for said alleged co-conspirator responds that he _ **IS NOT!!!** _
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### Author:  [@Marienee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marienee)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2008, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/quebec-court-overturns-fathers-grounding-of-12-year-old-kid/453447/20 "2008-06-19T19:18:01Z")
[QUOTE=sturmhauke]
I can see the incident as being fuel for the custody battle, but I still don’t see how the court should be directly intervening in the grounding. It’s not like the father locked her in the basement or something.
[/QUOTE]
What the court said (as I understand it) was that she could go on the school trip and the father was unreasonable in refusing to consent. He cannot effectively ground her as she does not live with him.
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