# Queen Elizabeth: did she bow her head for Diana? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142 "2008-01-11T16:34:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/1 "2008-01-11T16:34:06Z")
After researching this to the n’th degree for quite some time, my head is spinning. I’m no longer even sure what constitutes a bow. Most of the Internet sites dealing with this are either unreputable or inconclusive — just repeating reports from other sites. So, I’m coming here where British Dopers have been so helpful to me in the past about royal matters. Is it a bow if the chin does not touch the manibrium? Did the queen actually bow or head when Diana’s casket passed by? Or did she merely tilt her head? Is there a difference? And finally, if it’s true, then is it true that Diana is the only person for whom the Queen has ever bowed her head? (Not counting God or generalized people at memorials. The Diana bow, if it was a bow, is differentiated by the fact that it began as her body passed and ended as it left.) ETA: Should have mentioned that some say the “bow” was a coincidence, nothing more than a tilt as she looked at her shoes or the ground. But that’s hard for me to believe. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/2 "2008-01-11T16:39:14Z")
Footage at the time showed she had bowed her head. Her chin came pretty close to touching her chest. It was clear enough to be unambiguous. It was a tradition that British sovereigns never bow their heads to anyone. When the Queen did it, the shot was so newsworthy that it appeared all over the world; that wouldn’t have happened if it were commonplace. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/3 "2008-01-11T17:55:07Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] …And finally, if it’s true, then is it true that Diana is the only person for whom the Queen has ever bowed her head?.. [/QUOTE] No, she wasn’t born the Queen. For the first 26 years of her life she was _Princess_ Elizabeth and as such would’ve bowed/curtsied to any number of people including; her grandparents, her uncle, her parents, and foreign heads of state. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/4 "2008-01-11T18:14:25Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] No, she wasn’t born the Queen. For the first 26 years of her life she was _Princess_ Elizabeth and as such would’ve bowed/curtsied to any number of people including; her grandparents, her uncle, her parents, and foreign heads of state. [/QUOTE] That doesn’t really answer the question, which was whether **the Queen** (= Elizabeth actually reigning as queen) bowed for anyone else, not whether **Elizabeth** did. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/5 "2008-01-11T20:27:09Z")
Yes, I meant the Queen qua Queen, of course. But I’ll be interested to hear whether a head tilt is a bow when the chin does not touch the manubrium. I believe that is at the heart of all the controversy. If you look at the videos frame by frame, it is not clear whether there is space in there. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/6 "2008-01-11T20:30:26Z")
The Queen is a churchgoer, so I imagine she bows her head there. ---
**Author:** ![ArmenE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ArmenE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArmenE)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/7 "2008-01-11T20:55:09Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] The Queen is a churchgoer, so I imagine she bows her head there. [/QUOTE] From the OP [QUOTE=Liberal] is it true that Diana is the only person for whom the Queen has ever bowed her head? (\*\*Not counting God \*\*or generalized people at memorials [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/8 "2008-01-11T21:09:38Z")
Ah, missed that. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/9 "2008-01-11T21:24:21Z")
there was a definate show of respect. one that seemed to have throw her daughter for a loop, as anne did a double head bow after. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/10 "2008-01-11T21:24:37Z")
Yeah, just to rephrase everything in the hope of greater clarity, I’m talking about a personal interaction, such as the Queen with a Prime Minister, or the Queen with a foreign King, or the Queen with a Princess’s corpse passing in front of her. ETA: Woah, **rocking chair** , really? That information would be significant. If Anne took it to be a bow, then that would lend great credence to it being a bow. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/11 "2008-01-11T21:50:16Z")
yep-pa-roo! i remember it clearly. anne did a quick head tilt, looked at her mum and did another. it cracked me up and i pointed it out to my mum. it did go very quick, but very klutzy looking. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/12 "2008-01-11T22:06:48Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Is it a bow if the chin does not touch the manibrium? [/QUOTE] This such an unusual word I had to look it up. Just for the record, it’s misspelled in this post but correctly spelled [manubrium](http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/biology/humananatomy/skeletal/sternum/manubrium.html) in a later post. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/13 "2008-01-12T00:29:19Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Did the queen actually bow or head when Diana’s casket passed by? Or did she merely tilt her head? Is there a difference? And finally, if it’s true, then is it true that Diana is the only person for whom the Queen has ever bowed her head? [/QUOTE] Why does it matter? How long must we continue to talk about her? She has been dead for years but she just won’t go away! Obviously I was never a fan but there has to be a point where she stops being a person of interest. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveroptic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiveroptic/32/8257_2.png) [@Fiveroptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveroptic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/14 "2008-01-12T00:50:39Z")
…which, of course, is totally irrelevant to this thread. Does anyone have a link to video footage of the alleged bow? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/15 "2008-01-12T01:18:13Z")
Slightly irrelevant, maybe. But not totally irrelevant. You don’t think the identity of the person shown such respect matters? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/16 "2008-01-12T01:33:51Z")
[QUOTE=Fiveroptic] Does anyone have a link to video footage of the alleged bow? [/QUOTE] [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/eWuOJ-qc9cA/hqdefault.jpg "Princess Diana's Funeral Part 1: Waiting for the Cortege") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWuOJ-qc9cA) This is part one of a 38 part series of clips from the BBC coverage of Diana’s funeral. Fuck, I want to be carried through the streets of my capital city on the back of a gun carriage while the bell of an ancient cathedral tolls\*. I reckon you’ll see the Queen doing her thing on video 3 or 4. - plus my grateful people _will_ throw flowers onto my cortege ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/17 "2008-01-12T01:39:12Z")
I’m watching this - the Metropolitan Police and the Guards have really, really nice horses. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/18 "2008-01-12T01:59:44Z")
Shit it’s not the fourth video. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/19 "2008-01-12T02:11:56Z")
Good Lord. It isn’t the fifth one either. There’s a bit of Taverner coming up music-wise. Woo. And later some Elton John (oh dear) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142/20 "2008-01-12T02:15:41Z")
Pavarotti has turned up. He was looking pretty good it has to be said. The horses are still going through Hyde Park, and it is looking fucking gorgeous - the trees are vibrantly, wonderfuly green. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/queen-elizabeth-did-she-bow-her-head-for-diana/433142.md?page=2)