# Question about 9-11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007 "2003-05-23T12:01:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/21 "2003-05-23T14:44:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > **You got attacked. Get over it. Get back to what made your country the great place it (for the moment) still is.** It is still a great place, imo. But no, we’re in no hurry to get over it. Thanks for the note though. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/22 "2003-05-23T14:45:27Z")
Buy the way, Summertime, your statements are just too puerile to be refuted. If I may suggest a good history book. I bet they have some at [amazon.com](http://amazon.com)… Thx. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/23 "2003-05-23T14:47:13Z")
Tee - we know you are in no hurry to get over it. That’s why American tourism has been the big seller it has been, in the last 18 months… Enjoy throwing it all away… ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/24 "2003-05-23T14:47:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > Damn Straight. I have visited America only twice - once for 3 weeks: road trip around the Great Lakes, and once for 2 weeks: San Fran, Death Valley & Las Vegas. Yet you’ve diagnosed all its ills. Quick study. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > Just remember how embarrassed ALL Americans are when they look back at the 50’s and McCarthy’s anti-communist bullshit. Communists existed. They killed and tortured many people. A big communist government existed. Its agents and sympathizers actively sought the diminution or elimination of U.S. government stability in favor of communist/Soviet interests. Unless you dispute any of those factual premises, I’m not sure what “anti communist bullshit” means, or how you managed to meet every American during your 5 weeks there so as to determine that they were “ALL” (or ought to have been) embarrassed by anti-communism of the '50s. Was it “bullshit” to be anti-communist, or “bullshit” to do it the way McCarthy did? If the latter, any statistics on how many innocent (i.e., non-communist, which excludes the Hollywood Ten and Rosenbergs) Americans were unjustly (a) fired; (b) imprisoned; © tortured; (d) executed by McCarthy? Any such instances would be regrettable. I don’t think you can show, though, that thousands or tens of thousands or millions were seriously oppressed by McCarthy (or that the McCarthy era of such oppression was as protracted as any of the communist eras of oppression. This being so, I don’t know that you’ve demonstrated globally that McCarthyism renders all anti-communism “bullshit.” But I know the Irish love their dole, so maybe we’re just dealing with a residual fondness for the Benevolent Socialist Empire. And hey, it’s worth a laugh to envision how the statesman of mighty Eire would have dealt with a political situation that really mattered or how its indomitable armed forces would have resisted military aggression [visions of your man from the Gardai resolving to go out and sort those Russkies as soon as he pops down the pub for one last pint before the bell and finishes his John Player Blue]. > [@](#): > > This is just history repeating itself. Forget about the Islamic idiots that blew up NY. America is bigger & better than a few cave-dwelling freaks . . . . You got attacked. Get over it. Get back to what made your country the great place it (for the moment) still is. I don’t even know what this is trying to mean, if anything. “Get over it” is a great catchphrase or sitcom punchline. But what does it mean in political or geopolitical terms to “get over” or “forget about” a terrorist attack? Does it mean: (a) literally forget about it? How? Why? (b) “get over” feeling aggrieved about it? Because America is the evil empire and deserved it? Or because America didn’t deserve it, but should turn the other cheek? Or . . . .; © Stop focusing on Muslim extremism because that’s not the real issue? If not, who/what is? Probably the Brits, right?; (d) Accept that America had it coming and . . . what? It should change its ways? Less jargon, more explication, please. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/25 "2003-05-23T14:49:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Tee - we know you are in no hurry to get over it. That’s why American tourism has been the big seller it has been, in the last 18 months… Enjoy throwing it all away… \*\* Your premise: “Tourists have been avoiding America the past 18 months [CITE?]. They wouldn’t have avoided it if only America had “gotten over” 9/11.” Why would tourists care? Or am I still just misunderstanding what (if anything) you mean by “get over?” Auf Englisch, bitte. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/26 "2003-05-23T14:53:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Yeah Monty, I heard you the first time. How does America explain it’s morbid interest in bombing the shit out of foreign countries? It’s all just murder - I don’t give a fuck if you’re from NY, Kabul or Baghdad. America just got what it has richly deserved. If I may make the distinction - the people who died in the WTC did not deserve it, but America, as a warped global policeman did. > > Thanks for your views though. Please keep it coming. If possible I would like a viewpoint from an American who can appreciate the savage irony of the entire affair - like AnArky did… > > Regards. \*\* I’m quite sure that the relatives and friends of the dead appreciate that it was the nebulous “America” that was killed and not their sons/daughters/husbands/wives/lovers. You want to argue that America was attacked. If it was, it was peripheral to the attacks on Americans. The attack started with hijacked commercial airplanes, continued with commercial skyscrapers and finished with a legitimate “American, the morbid bombing murderer” target. I also think your bias is showing with statements that “I would like a viewpoint from an American who can appreciate the savage irony of the entire affair” ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/27 "2003-05-23T14:55:01Z")
Huerta88 - you’re English aren’t you ? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/28 "2003-05-23T14:57:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Huerta88 - you’re English aren’t you ? \*\* Please. Let’s not stoop to low personal insults in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/29 "2003-05-23T15:06:02Z")
No seriously. Why would I assume that the “Brits” are the “real issue” ? Because I’m Irish. Nice stereotyping. And please answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/30 "2003-05-23T15:11:57Z")
No seriously. Why would I assume that the “Brits” are the “real issue” ? Because I’m Irish. Nice stereotyping. And please answer the question. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/31 "2003-05-23T15:13:56Z")
Since you ask (and not that it matters), I’m neither a Brit nor carrying any water for them. Nor did I really favor the war in Iraq. Confusing, ain’t it, that nonetheless I still don’t understand what the “real issue” is in your view? Not really, when you look at my original questions, about which I’m still wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/32 "2003-05-23T15:19:19Z")
What’s the debate here anyway? **Tarantula** seems to want views that line up with his/hers. Aside from being a year or so behind the times maybe it should move to MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/33 "2003-05-23T15:24:38Z")
I looked at your original questions, and I’m still wondering too. Wherever you’re from you have a really shaky grasp of the English Language. Please restate your questions in a better manner, and please advise where you’re from. I get the feeling that you might be Irish. That would be crap. Please let me know. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/34 "2003-05-23T15:26:53Z")
I take issue with the words “richly deserved”. Nobody or anything deserved that, no matter what the sins of their government. However, I personally interpret the words “had it coming” to mean “inevitable” or “unsurprising”, rather than implying something appropriateness. I predict that **Tarantula’s** overgeneralisations and ill-chosen words will cause this thread to implode rather soon - or go Pitwards. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/35 "2003-05-23T15:30:28Z")
jjimm - speaking of the pit, Heurta88 was ragging on your country… go for 'im. But you’re right. I feel the slip starting… ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/36 "2003-05-23T15:33:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > **jjimm - speaking of the pit, Heurta88 was ragging on your country… go for 'im.** I took his/her comment to be facetious. Even if it weren’t, I don’t really give a monkey’s, since I’m not terribly nationalistic. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/37 "2003-05-23T15:47:41Z")
Considering that you are the one who started this thread nearly 18 months after 9/11, maybe you are the one who should “get over it”. Most us are pretty much “over it” and have moved on to more pressing issues like finding or keeping our jobs. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > America just got what it has richly deserved. If I may make the distinction - the people who died in the WTC did not deserve it, but America, as a warped global policeman did. > \*\* Well the problem with just lashing out at a symbol is that 1) you kill a lot of innocent people who have really nothing to do with you and your goals and 2) you don’t really accomplish anything except pissing a lot of people off. Hey…if the terrorists wanted America out of the Middle East, it sure backfired on them. All that aside, how did “America” deserve 9/11? Most of the terrorists were of Saudi nationality. Did we drop any bombs on Saudi Arabia? Weren’t some of those bombs we arbitrarily drop used to defend Muslim interests in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the Balkins? Maybe in Ireland and Palestine it’s considered acceptible to blow up people because you feel they slighted you or you disagree with their politics, but most of us don’t share those views. To answer your questions: -1 - Why could the HQ of the most powerful military force in the world not defend itself against 1 unarmed civilian aeroplane ? Because it’s not a combat headquarters and this type of attack was never expected by anyone (except Tom Clancy). -2 - How has the American population been duped into thinking that Saddam Hussein has / had anything to do with 9-11 ? If anyone thinks that, they allowed themselves to be duped or they are incapible of grasping anythong more complicated than “Sadaam bad”. The TV has been pretty clear on the fact that Sadaam likely had little or nothing to do with 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![Payton\_s\_Servant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3da27b/32.png) [@Payton\_s\_Servant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Payton_s_Servant)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/38 "2003-05-23T15:48:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Huerta88 \* > \*\*Was it “bullshit” to be anti-communist, or “bullshit” to do it the way McCarthy did? If the latter, any statistics on how many innocent (i.e., non-communist, which excludes the Hollywood Ten and Rosenbergs) Americans were unjustly (a) fired; (b) imprisoned; © tortured; (d) executed by McCarthy? Any such instances would be regrettable. I don’t think you can show, though, that thousands or tens of thousands or millions were seriously oppressed by McCarthy (or that the McCarthy era of such oppression was as protracted as any of the communist eras of oppression \*\* It is bullshit to go about it the way McCarthy did, because McCarthy’s method was bullshit to begin with, as were all of the supposed _facts & numbers_ that he bleated and screeched out about how many Communists were in which department of the government. McCarthy didn’t give a rat’s ass whether or not there were any Communists in the government, (a fact he told to a group of reporters), he did it because he was an egomaniacal drunk and a publicity seeking AssHat. Since when does being a Communist make someone guilty of anything? As I recall, even back during the 1950’s, the Communist Party was not outlawed in the United States, which makes your comment above, \*\*very \*\* asinine indeed. Another thing, it wasn’t oppression, it was much worse then that. Try character assasination. People lost their livelyhoods, their homes, all their possesions, they couldn’t get a job anywhere. They’re lives were utterly and completely ruined, simply to satsfy a drunks insatiable need to be in the spotlight. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/39 "2003-05-23T15:49:23Z")
Everybody just relax. jjimm - I was joking about Heurta88 having a go at your country. grey - I’m a guy. The fact that this all seems behind the times is my very point. Everytime I look at CNN or the NY Times, they are still banging on about 9-11. I was just wondering if there was some reason for this that I am missing. There obviously isn’t. Not to worry. Thanks for participating. Gotta go now. Time for my John Player Blue and a pint of Guinness… Huerta88 - you’re definately Irish. Rock and Roll. Everyone have a nice weekend, and I hope I did not offend anyone. Thanks again - see ya Monday - bright & early. ---
**Author:** ![mooka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@mooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mooka)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/40 "2003-05-23T16:19:27Z")
He does have on valid (if not original) point though. One of the responces to al-qaeda by western governments has been to take away some of our civil liberties. In a way, the attacks are having an effect the terrorists want - to restrict our freedom. And all these “anti-american” threads i’ve seen, where some people call those who attack government actions as anti american. This sounds dangerously to me like suppression of dissent. Just because its done by people instead of governments doesn’t make it ok. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007.md?page=3)