# Question about 9-11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 23, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007 "2003-05-23T12:01:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/141 "2003-05-27T12:57:33Z")
\*\* Grey \*\* I’d have to go with Latro on this one. However, ceteri paribus, I think anyone (gun-toter, bark-muncher or bomber) would prefer to attack the US Army and Gummit… just a pity that Bush wasn’t visiting the New Wing of the Pentagon that day… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/142 "2003-05-27T15:28:20Z")
**Latro** Agreed. They were targeting symbols. I doubt however that they were unaware of the Americans within those symbols. Had the destruction of simple symbols been the primary aim it would’ve been easy enough to call in the impending attacks as the IRA use to do. Military/Government personnel could be considered legitimate targets. Civilians within the airplanes and towers can not be. **Tarantula** given your previous posts about the sanctity of a single life, your gleeful post seems out of character. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/143 "2003-05-27T15:44:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Grey \* > \*\*\*\*Latro\*\*Agreed. They were targeting symbols. I doubt however that they were unaware of the Americans within those symbols. Had the destruction of simple symbols been the primary aim it would’ve been easy enough to call in the impending attacks as the IRA use to do. Not just Americans, of course. > [@](#): > > **Tarantula** given your previous posts about the sanctity of a single life, your gleeful post seems out of character. \*\* I second that. Totally inappropriate. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/144 "2003-05-27T17:23:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by flonks \* > \*\*That is complete nonsense, since Saddam Hussein was one of the first to condemn the WTC attacks right after they happened (!!!) > > The rest is US government propaganda, so no “ass-whuppin was in order” … \*\* My god man, you can run over to even snopes right now and see the damn mural the Iraqis put up- IMHO to celebrate our tragedy. Even snopes- super cynics they are- don’t think this is “US Propaganda”. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/145 "2003-05-27T17:36:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*My god man, you can run over to even snopes right now and see the damn mural the Iraqis put up- IMHO to celebrate our tragedy. Even snopes- super cynics they are- don’t think this is “US Propaganda”. \*\* Snopes [says](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/mural.php): > [@](#): > > The plane in this cheerily-hued painting bears the logo and color scheme of Iraqi Airlines. \ No comment has so far been offered as to whether the mural pre-dates the September 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City or whether it was painted afterwards in celebration of same. I don’t deny that the painting exists. But a) was this an official government mural? b) can you consider that people who are full of hatred might want to celebrate a tragedy perpetrated upon their enemy, without actually having anything to do with its perpetration? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/146 "2003-05-27T17:50:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > **violence is not the answer - ever.** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > **I think America (and quite a few of the right-wing, gun toting, red-neck Americans) deserved 9-11.** :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/147 "2003-05-27T18:16:36Z")
Lets assume he was speaking metaphorically. I’m doubting it, but lets see. **MLS** , you are correct of course. **jjimm**. 140 posts or so, who knew trains took so long to go off the tracks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![flonks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@flonks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flonks)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/148 "2003-05-28T07:00:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*My god man, you can run over to even snopes right now and see the damn mural the Iraqis put up- IMHO to celebrate our tragedy. Even snopes- super cynics they are- don’t think this is “US Propaganda”. \*\* The whole arab world was dancing on the street, not just the Iraqis, so if some “ass-whuppin” was in order because of that you better increase your military budget even more and prepare for the back draft after the “ass whuppin”. Concerning the celebrations, you should not confuse the street with official diplomacy. If you ask people in the whole world if the US as country deserved 911 as a sign for its foreign politics, I am sure you will get surprising answers (surprising for you). But people in most countries will not openly tell you that as an american because they have been shocked by the personal tragedies in these accidents as well. That is my personal opinion and I see it confirmed very often. I had been in the US during the attacks, and I had been on ground zero some hours before the attacks. I was shocked and even depressed after the attacks and I felt terribly sorry for the victims. But that does not change my opinion in that 911 was a response to US foreign policy and the only way to stop attacks like that on the long term is a change of foreign politics. ---
**Author:** ![OliverH](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/278dde/32.png) [@OliverH](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OliverH)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/149 "2003-05-28T07:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\*My god man, you can run over to even snopes right now and see the damn mural the Iraqis put up- IMHO to celebrate our tragedy. Even snopes- super cynics they are- don’t think this is “US Propaganda”. \*\* So? Unfortunately, it doesn’t prove a single one of your points. It merely demonstrates the selective perception bordering on racism that is all too common. I am sure you would also like to point at Palestinians dancing in the streets to show us they, too deserve an ass-wupping? I am equally sure you will immediately close your eyes in order to avoid seeing a photo on the State Department web site depicting Palestinian children bringing candles and flowers to the US consulate in East Jerusalem. ( [http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/album/response/resp7.htm](http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/album/response/resp7.htm) ) It is funny how guilt by association is valid for everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/150 "2003-05-28T09:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Glad to see my thread survived the weekend. > > We nearly got hijacked into a discussion on poxy Northern Ireland politics. Just for everyones info - I have never met anyone in Ireland who gave a rats-ass about NI or who owned it - we are well and truly over it. > > \*\* you mustn’t go out that much. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/151 "2003-05-28T10:12:30Z")
\*\* Elfje\*\* …we \*\* NEARLY \*\* got hijacked… if you want to post a new thread, then fire away… \*\* Grey \*\* et al. : my comment about Bush getting squashed by a 737 was tongue-in-cheek. However, violence not being the answer and the US deserving a good bombing are not contradictory. People can deserve a lot of things. The reason that I am not out there attempting to dish it out to them, is because I believe that violence won’t get anyone anywhere. They still deserve it, but it wouldn’t solve anything. Back to the main-course… Does nobody in America think that the entire 9-11 fiasco is the fault of the US Government ? Please answer… ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/152 "2003-05-28T11:33:28Z")
Here try these. The first one gives you ~240 threads on terrorist/attack/America. Enjoy! [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=645695&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=645695&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87848&highlight=terrorist+deserved+america+pentagon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87848&highlight=terrorist+deserved+america+pentagon) oddly enough a 2001 thread on the attacks. **Tarantula** given your posting on NI, you may want to bend a little no? I’ll also say that you’re now changing the thrust of this thread (again). You moving from “why can’t they get over it” to “they deserved it” to “well some of them deserved it” to “doesn’t anyone think the US government is responsible”. Focus man! Focus! I would say that given the visible size, reach and global impact of the US during the ‘90’s it was inevitable that various groups would fixate on the US. Why would they pick the EU, which is only slowly becoming a single entity and one with zero transnational interests outside its boundaries? China? Well China has its problems with extremists in its western provinces. Fact is there is no bigger, meaner boogeyman than the US to go after if you’re looking to go after someone. Foreign policy decisions that benefit the US at the expense of other groups (kind of the point though) simply throw fuel on the fire. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/153 "2003-05-28T12:01:02Z")
Eh, \*\* Grey \*\*, all the point that you make about me changing the thrust of the thread is invalid. To put it simply - The US Gummint is responsible for the US attacks because they have spent the last 50-odd years pissing off everyone. They deserved the attack - same reason as above. Some of them deserved it more than others - always the case with anything. Ergo - why all the obsessing about it? You asked for it, you got it, get over it… It doesn’t take a great leap of logic to make this connection, but there it is for you, since you couldn’t make it yourself. Secondly, these groups didn’t fixate on the US - they just got pissed off with you bombing the shit out of them constantly, and decided to reciprocate. Finally, the foreign policy decisions that the US made that angered the rest of the world, didn’t benefit anyone - least of all the US - e.g. Granada - how did that invasion benefit a single fucking soul ?? You’ve got to admit that this is all the American Governments fault… ---
**Author:** ![elfje](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@elfje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfje)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/154 "2003-05-28T12:18:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\*Glad to see my thread survived the weekend. > > We nearly got hijacked into a discussion on poxy Northern Ireland politics. Just for everyones info - I have never met anyone in Ireland who gave a rats-ass about NI or who owned it - we are well and truly over it. > \*\* my point was this: if you post such nonsense about what the feelings in Ireland are about the Troubles, how can we take you seriously about the other “opinion” you’ve posted? you seem to be in dire need of some nuance - and how to apply it in a debate. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/155 "2003-05-28T12:21:23Z")
\*\* elfje \*\* - what in the name of suffering jesus are you banging on about??? I am “in dire need of some nuance” ??? I think you are in dire need of some dictionary. Give me strength… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/156 "2003-05-28T12:26:40Z")
Sorry for a slight hijack, but I left this thread and went out of town over the holiday. I had said earlier on that I thought many Americans knew we had 9/11 coming, and it was construed that I meant that America deserved it. Not the case. I meant that we had it coming in the sense that something like 9/11 was inevitable. Of course, I am of the opinion that our foreign relations is a major factor in engendering the hatred and terrorism we now suffer from, but office workers in the WTC (and firemen, etc.) had nothing to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e274bd/32.png) [@Tarantula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantula)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/157 "2003-05-28T12:38:29Z")
Damn right \*\* An Arky \*\* - that’s my point. But why get angry at the rest of the world about it? If a 12 year old commits a crime, I blame the parents, I don’t blame the child. Cause & effect. This time, could the Americans please take \*\* ALL \*\* the responsibility for what happened, and then move on. It was tragic, but you have no-one to blame but yourselves… ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/158 "2003-05-28T12:40:09Z")
no, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/159 "2003-05-28T12:42:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantula \* > \*\* could the Americans please take \*\* ALL \*\* the responsibility for what happened, and then move on. \*\* Not when 3,000 people died, no. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007/160 "2003-05-28T12:46:43Z")
By extension, you appear to be saying that _everyone_ who is a victim of terrorism bears “all” the responsibility for what has been perpetrated on them… It’s a bizarre concept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-9-11/177007.md?page=9)