# Question about acupuncture **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 27, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699 "2021-12-27T02:14:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/1 "2021-12-27T02:14:42Z")
Is it standard practice for an acupuncturist to hold a lit stick of incense to your fingernails and toenails, and ask you to tell them when it starts to feel hot? To determine your ‘kidney lines’ or ‘liver lines’ or some such? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/2 "2021-12-27T03:08:43Z")
Is that the explanation they gave you? In my very limited experience with acupuncture years ago there was no heat test to determine “meridians” or whatever the hell this person was doing. Not much goofier than standard acupuncture theory though. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/3 "2021-12-27T22:57:04Z")
I’m sort of surprised I haven’t gotten any (useful) answers here. Surely there are some Dopers with acupuncture experience? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/4 "2021-12-27T23:00:35Z")
I’m more surprised you haven’t been torn to shreds. Last time I checked, placing some needles at the indicated points made the patient a little better. So did placing needles at random and placing needles at contraindicated points. It’s a placebo- with needles. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/5 "2021-12-27T23:07:51Z")
Is there at least a modicum of science to it though? Not that it will heal anything but I remember when I was a kid, there was a place I could scratch on my neck and I could feel it on my right butt cheek when I did. Very strange sensation. I assume it has something to do with inter connected nerve clusters. (Or some such, I know I’m not using the right vernaculars here). ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/6 "2021-12-27T23:11:54Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Not that it will heal anything but I remember when I was a kid, there was a place I could scratch on my neck and I could feel it on my right butt cheek when I did. And I’ve heard that you can resolve nausea by squeezing the webbing between your thumb and forefinger. I don’t know if there’s an empirical basis to believe that there is a correlation, but there is conventional wisdom. ETA: This is the logic behind sea bands, which are elastic bands you wear with pressure points on your wrist, that claim to stave off sea sickness. > **[7 Pressure Points for Nausea](https://www.healthline.com/health/pressure-points-for-nausea)** > > We look at seven pressure points, or acupoints, to relieve nausea. You can reach most of these yourself. For others, you may need to see an acupressure practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/7 "2021-12-27T23:14:17Z")
I’m in the middle of reading the Skeptic’s Dictionary article on acupuncture. So far, this stands out " The evidence from both personal testimony and from scientific studies clearly shows that acupuncture works and is an effective medical treatment for many ailments. The evidence from the scientific studies also shows clearly that [sham acupuncture](http://skepdic.com/shamacupuncture.html) is just as effective as true acupuncture. What is not so clear to some people, but is easily ferreted out from the evidence, is that acupuncture most likely works by [classical conditioning](http://skepdic.com/conditioning.html) and other factors that are often lumped together and referred to as “the [placebo effect](http://skepdic.com/placebo.html).” Furthermore, _in some cases_ [sham acupuncture works better than other placebos](http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/06/health/he-briefly6)." Note that for a very long time, willow bark tea was thought to relieve pain. Eventually a scientist discovere that willow bark contains a substance he called aspirin. You know what you call alternative medicine that works? Medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/8 "2021-12-27T23:23:52Z")
@DocCathode is spot on. To summarize science-based medicine’s view of acupuncture (per [UpToDate.com](http://UpToDate.com)): ●The traditional theory of acupuncture involves qi, yin and yang, and the Five Elements. ●There are a number of physiologic models that have been proposed to explain the effects of acupuncture. ●Acupuncture has been studied for many conditions including chronic and acute pain and postoperative and chemotherapy-associated nausea. ●Although there are difficulties in studying acupuncture, randomized trials suggest that acupuncture and sham acupuncture may have similar efficacy. Given this, much or all of the effect of acupuncture may be related to the placebo effect. ●Acupuncture is generally very safe as long as appropriate sterile techniques are followed. ●In patients with chronic pain, both acupuncture and sham acupuncture appear to have much greater efficacy than when patients are left untreated. We suggest that patients with chronic pain who are interested or open to acupuncture be referred for a trial of acupuncture when the availability of safe alternatives is limited. Patients with other conditions may also benefit from a trial of acupuncture. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/9 "2021-12-27T23:32:37Z")
I wish someone would address my actual question. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/10 "2021-12-27T23:53:03Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > I wish someone would address my actual question. I have no personal experience with the practice, but I did find this: > [@](#): > > # Moxibustion > > ### What is moxibustion? > > Moxibustion is a form of heat therapy in which dried plant materials called “moxa” are burned on or very near the surface of the skin. The intention is to warm and invigorate the flow of Qi in the body and dispel certain pathogenic influences. > > Moxa is usually made from the dried leafy material of Chinese mugwort (Artemesia argyi or A.vlugaris), but it can be made of other substances as well. > > ### What exactly does the practitioner do? > > In the U.S., practitioners generally hold a burning moxa stick close to, but not touching, the surface of the skin. > > In this method, the moxa material is compressed into a stick or pole, looking not unlike an oversized cigar that can be lit and allowed to smolder, producing a unique form of very penetrating heat. > > The smoldering moxa stick is held over specific areas, often, though not always, corresponding to certain acupuncture points. The glowing end of the moxa stick is held about an inch or two above the surface of the skin until the area reddens and becomes suffused with warmth. Is this what you experienced? > **[Moxibustion | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing](https://www.takingcharge.csh.umn.edu/moxibustion)** > > What is moxibustion?Moxibustion is a form of heat therapy in which dried plant materials called "moxa" are burned on or very near the surface of the skin. The intention is to warm and invigorate the flow of Qi in the body and dispel certain... ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/11 "2021-12-28T01:10:08Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Moxibustion Thanks for the cite. I thought she indicated it was more for diagnostic purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/12 "2021-12-28T03:39:55Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > I’m sort of surprised I haven’t gotten any (useful) answers here. Surely there are some Dopers with acupuncture experience? I was speaking from personal experience. There was no “heat test”, and I can’t conceive of any related finding that an acupuncturist could use to guide treatment. Unless things have changed an awful lot from my medical training, testing finger and toenail sensitivity with a lit stick of incense is not part of a standard neurological exam. I can see how that would be unwelcome news to an acupuncture patient hoping for a positive outcome. As to acupuncture as a viable treatment for anything\*, there are a lot of studies, some suggesting positive effects. As studies get larger and more expertly done, those effects tend to become indistinguishable from placebo. And placebo, while occasionally useful to a limited degree, typically becomes ineffective over time, obliging people to seek out new placebos which in turn become useless. Their value has to be weighed against expense and the cost of avoiding potentially effective evidence-based care. \*Regarding chronic pain treatment, after all this time there’s still no general agreement on whether acupuncture is useful. “Conclusions: The large quantity of (randomized controlled trials) on acupuncture for chronic pain contained within systematic reviews provide evidence that is conflicting and inconclusive, due in part to recurring methodological shortcomings of RCTs.” > **[Acupuncture for the Relief of Chronic Pain: A Synthesis of Systematic Reviews](https://www.mdpi.com/1648-9144/56/1/6/htm)** > > Background and Objectives: It is estimated that 28 million people in the UK live with chronic pain. A biopsychosocial approach to chronic pain is recommended which combines pharmacological interventions with behavioural and non-pharmacological... ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/13 "2021-12-28T04:44:25Z")
About 10 years ago, I tried acupuncture for menopause problems that I later discovered couldn’t have been cured by anything other than surgery. I went to a long-time acupuncturist. At no time did he or his assistant hold incense or any other burning substance near any part of my body. Diagnosis was done by asking questions. I only had one treatment. I have dermatographia, a condition in which scratching the skin causes raised welts. (Some dermatographic artists [use their skin as a medium.)](https://petapixel.com/2014/05/27/dermatographia-shows-artists-endeavor-turn-skin-condition-medium-art/). Though the needles used are very fine, I got raised bumps at each site. I never went back. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/14 "2022-01-04T19:30:54Z")
[Here](https://www.acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms/at/article.php?id=32268) is the answer, if anyone is interested. Scroll down to " _The Akabani Test_ " ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/15 "2022-01-04T21:03:15Z")
Well, that makes perfect sense. I am disappointed however that Umbilical Pulse testing apparently was not performed on the OP, thus missing a chance to re-center meridians as occurred with the fortunate woman described in jaycat’s link: "More recently, in class, I demonstrated the technique for balancing the Umbilical Pulse on a student who had recently relocated and had found it impossible to feel “at home” in her new home. She had not unpacked her moving boxes in the weeks since her arrival, and had no intention to do so. She reported feeling anxious, unsettled, and unable to “root.” Her energy was similarly unsettled; at times manic, at times lethargic. I centered her umbilicus in class and did nothing else. She reported the next day having turned into a “homecoming queen”. So now she can root, root root for the home team. 🤗 ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2022, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/16 "2022-01-05T00:03:01Z")
A Chinese born fellow from work explained that I can use this point “The large intestine 4 (LI4) point on your hand helps with nausea caused by headaches …” to cure headaches. I’ve tried it and it works most of the time. Placebo effect, probable, but the headache usually goes away in a few minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-acupuncture/956699/17 "2022-01-06T13:49:51Z")
Breaking news: a squabble over Battlefield Acupuncture for chronic pain has resulted in an Expression of Concern for intrepid researchers. Angst results. > **[Authors unhappy as “battlefield acupuncture” paper earns an expression of...](https://retractionwatch.com/2022/01/06/authors-unhappy-as-battlefield-acupuncture-paper-earns-an-expression-of-concern/)** > > via Joint Base Andrews A journal has slapped an expression of concern on a 2021 paper reporting on the utility of self-administered “battlefield” acupuncture in soldiers, citing readers who said th…