# Question about American Democracy **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 18, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086 "2005-03-18T01:48:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/21 "2005-03-18T16:45:18Z")
The practice of a popular vote selecting who the electors would actually be evolved over time – the idea that in a two-person race the winner would receive much less than 50% of the vote was plausible in the 1800s but not now. Mucher lower percentages imply the winning candidate would receive nearly zero votes in many states lost, and that’s not reasonable. The reason it was plausible long ago is that many states didn’t have popular votes at all, and the distribution of the non-popular voting states might have reasonably been related to support of one candidate or the other. It didn’t actually happen, but the pontentiality was more than theoritical. The particulars of the history of electoral college have included a wide range of unique, uncommon and “common for the time” events no longer part of modern US practices or law. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/22 "2005-03-18T17:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Three Presidents have been elected after losing the popular vote: > > In 1876, Rutherford B. Hayes lost the popular vote to Samuel Tilden by about 250,000 votes, but won in the Electoral College. > > In 1888, Benjamin Harrison lost the popular vote to Grover Cleveland by about 100,000 votes, but won in the Electoral College. (Grover got his revenge in 1892 and became the only President to serve two non-consecutive terms.) > > In 2000, George W. Bush lost the popular vote to Al Gore by about 540,000 votes, but won in the Electoral College by just squeaking by with a majority. In 2004, Bush won the popular vote and a larger majority in the Electoral College. There was also the 1824 election, in which John Quincy Adams came in second place to Andrew Jackson in both the popular vote and the electoral college count. But because it was a four way race and neither man won a majority, the election went to the House of Representatives, which chose Adams for President. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/23 "2005-03-18T20:07:18Z")
It’s a strange conincidence that three of the four times the presidency has gone to someone other than the popular-vote champ, a direct descendant of a former president was involved. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/24 "2005-03-18T21:21:26Z")
Coincidence, Cliffy? I don’t know. How many of them were Freemasons? ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/25 "2005-03-18T21:33:49Z")
The Masons work _behind_ the scenes! –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Patster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Patster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/26 "2005-03-21T05:34:19Z")
> [@mittu](#): > > Before I post my actual question I will tell you how I believe American Democracy works so if this is wrong you can ignore my question and correct me 🙂 > > O.K. so my assumption is that in an American election it is possible to be elected without winning what is referred to as the “popular vote”, in other words the person who most people vote for will not necessarily win the election. This is due to a certain number of “seats” being given to each state which isn’t always in proportion to the population. For example: > > State A has 10 million people and 10 seats > State B has 12 million people and 9 seats > > So votes cast in State A have more of a bearing on the outcome of the election than those cast in State B as the outcome is decided by the number of seats rather than direct number of votes. > > If memory serves Dubya lost the popular vote when first elected but won it second time around? > > Anyway, that is how I believe the process to work so onto the question: > > In an election with only two candidates (A & B) what is the lowest percentage of votes that candidate A can recieve and still be elected as president? In other words all the people who live in states with high seats/population ratios vote for candidate A and those people living in states with low seats/population ratios vote for candidate B. > > I would take a WAG that it would be around 45% but leave the actual maths to those of you who understand American democracy better than I. In a presidiantial election, the winner is determined by the Electoral College, which is both houses of Congress, (I think). It is possible to lose the “popular vote”, and win the election in the Electoral College. Good question, hope my answer helps. Larry7708 ---
**Author:** ![Patster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/50afbb/32.png) [@Patster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patster)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/27 "2005-03-21T05:39:14Z")
If I may add, each state has two Senators regardless of population, whereas the number of House delegates is determined by population. No state with a lower population should have more members in the House than a state with a larger population. Larry7708—again ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/28 "2005-03-21T08:47:12Z")
> [@Patster](#): > > In a presidiantial election, the winner is determined by the Electoral College, which is both houses of Congress, (I think). It is possible to lose the “popular vote”, and win the election in the Electoral College. The Electoral College is a separate body, convened only for the purpose of electing the President and Vice President. Each state’s representation in the E.C. is determined by the total number of representatives it has in both Houses of Congress, but Congress itself is not involved (unless there’s a tie vote in the E.C.). This means that even the tiniest state has three electors in the E.C., because every state has 2 Senators and at least 1 Representative. I’ve found myself explaining this a lot, the last two US Pres elections, as I’m sure many other Yanks Abroad here have, too… ---
**Author:** ![aahala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e4f/32.png) [@aahala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aahala)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086/29 "2005-03-21T15:59:28Z")
> [@Patster](#): > > If I may add, each state has two Senators regardless of population, whereas the number of House delegates is determined by population. No state with a lower population should have more members in the House than a state with a larger population. > > Larry7708—again \ The actual assignment methods to acheive legal requirements are complex and perplexing. Several methods have been used in US history and they can all led to surprising results: [http://www.ctl.ua.edu/math103/apportionment/appmeth.htm#Apportionment](http://www.ctl.ua.edu/math103/apportionment/appmeth.htm#Apportionment) \ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-american-democracy/295086.md?page=1)