# Question about Bush, big oil, and Iraq **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 23, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205 "2005-08-23T01:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/41 "2005-08-24T18:49:21Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Besides the moral issues raised by justifying invading other countries to control their resources, these comments make me wonder if you have ever visited other Western democratic countries. Did you know, for example, that in many of these countries “city slums” essentially do not exist (at least on the scale and magnitude they do here)? 😕 [hijack]I’ve been to several dozen countries, and I have never failed to find a slum if I look for one. Which countries and large cities, exactly, are you referring to? [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/42 "2005-08-24T19:00:11Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Ya know… > > If this war were all about oil, we’d be paying $0.50 at the pump instead of $2.50 because we’d have taken all the oil for ourselves. Oil _profits_, not oil. If the oil is sold and the profits handed to American companies, they win; if the oil isn’t/can’t be sold, it restricts supply and raises prices and profits. For the American oil industry, the war was a win/win situation. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/43 "2005-08-24T20:23:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > 😕 > [hijack]I’ve been to several dozen countries, and I have never failed to find a slum if I look for one. Which countries and large cities, exactly, are you referring to? [/hijack] Well, like I said in my parenthetical remark, it is a matter of scale and magnitude. I have found nothing closely approximating U.S. slums in Copenhagen, Denmark or various cities in Holland, for example. Hell, even when I lived in Canada, the slummy parts of Vancouver were just a totally different beast than the slums of, say, West Philly. The point is that the poverty that exists is less extreme and concentrated in these other countries as it is in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/44 "2005-08-24T22:19:29Z")
If the war were simply about oil, we would have turned Iraq into radioactive rubble, then cleaned up the oil-producing areas. After all, Saddam had WMD, or so we thought. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/45 "2005-08-24T23:53:44Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > If the war were simply about oil, we would have turned Iraq into radioactive rubble And how would you have dealt with the geopolitical backlash from _that_ stunt? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/46 "2005-08-25T00:50:51Z")
> [@jshore](#): > > Well, so which of the possibilities do you subscribe to that I laid out…Do you think that he really believed that the WMD were a serious threat but was so grotesquely incompetent that he failed to take precautions to prevent those WMD from ending up in God-knows-whose hands or what? It is not enough to say that he didn’t lie about his reasons for going to war…You have to present some sort of logical theory that explains his actions. You haven’t done so. (And, by the way, you linked to things such as a 1997 report to make the claim that he was playing “shell games” with the inspectors. That says little about the latest inspections before the war and also fails to mention the slight detail that it is also now known that the allegations that the inspectors were spying on Iraq, which Saddam was using to justify his non-compliance, were in fact true. It is a little hard to use his unwillingness to allow the inspectors to spy on him for the militaries of known enemies who had already invaded his country once as evidence that he must be hiding massive WMDs. It could be that he just didn’t like having these known enemies spying on sensitive facilities.) This discussion has gotten off track. I asked in the OP for those who believe he did it for oil, if he got any personal gain out of it, and if so, by whom, and how? The discussion about what his real motives were is for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/47 "2005-08-25T01:56:07Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > This discussion has gotten off track. I asked in the OP for those who believe he did it for oil, if he got any personal gain out of it, and if so, by whom, and how? > The discussion about what his real motives were is for another thread. The reason this thread has gotten off track is because you asked a leading question which no one will answer in the manner you’re fishing for. You asked us to justify a set of motives you provided, but when people describe what _they_ see as his motives, you say “The discussion about what his real motives were is for another thread.” Why ? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/48 "2005-08-25T03:37:30Z")
> [@bizzwire](#): > > The reason this thread has gotten off track is because you asked a leading question which no one will answer in the manner you’re fishing for. You asked us to justify a set of motives you provided, but when people describe what _they_ see as his motives, you say “The discussion about what his real motives were is for another thread.” Why ? Let’s see. 1)A lot of people think Bush started this war over oil. That’s not leading, it’s a fact. 2)I stated my opinion that it would make sense to me that such a person wouldn’t do it unless he had something to gain personally. I came to my opinion based on all the non stop Bush bashing on this board about how he’s evil, greedy, stupid, etc. Most people like this want great wealth and power. As President, he already has tremendous power, so, logically, that left money as the main motivator for his actions (if you believe that he did it for oil). However, I also figured that maybe there were other ways he could gain that I wasn’t thinking of. 3)I asked, if that’s the case, that he did it for personal gain, if it was for money, who paid him and how. If he gained something else, what was it? OK, looking over it, maybe I shouldn’t have assumed that because people thought he started it over oil, that he also did it for personal gain. So I’ll redefine the question. If you believe that Bush started the war over oil, do you also believe that he did it for personal gain? If so, what kind of personal gain did he get, and from whom? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/49 "2005-08-25T04:37:31Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Let’s see. > 1)A lot of people think Bush started this war over oil. That’s not leading, it’s a fact. Have you found one yet? ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/50 "2005-08-25T05:47:33Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Have you found one yet? You’re kidding, right? I mean, look at some of the previous posts for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/51 "2005-08-25T07:12:21Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > And how would you have dealt with the geopolitical backlash from _that_ stunt? Bush would have pointed out that Saddam had WMD and he wasn’t going to risk his boys having WMD used against them. And the rest of the world would know not to piss off America. ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/52 "2005-08-25T11:46:04Z")
> [@Master Control](#): > > Let’s see. > 1)A lot of people think Bush started this war over oil. That’s not leading, it’s a fact. > 2)I stated my opinion that it would make sense to me that such a person wouldn’t do it unless he had something to gain personally. I came to my opinion based on all the non stop Bush bashing on this board about how he’s evil, greedy, stupid, etc. Most people like this want great wealth and power. As President, he already has tremendous power, so, logically, that left money as the main motivator for his actions (if you believe that he did it for oil). However, I also figured that maybe there were other ways he could gain that I wasn’t thinking of. > 3)I asked, if that’s the case, that he did it for personal gain, if it was for money, who paid him and how. If he gained something else, what was it? > > OK, looking over it, maybe I shouldn’t have assumed that because people thought he started it over oil, that he also did it for personal gain. So I’ll redefine the question. > > If you believe that Bush started the war over oil, do you also believe that he did it for personal gain? > If so, what kind of personal gain did he get, and from whom? Fair enough; Being a “war president” garners him a measure of public support that he probably couldn’t earn through, say “No Child Left Behind,” or his Terry Schiavo shenannigans. This gives him power to push his agenda as well as to better look after the interests of his contributors and backers-many of whom have a distinct whiff of bitumen. I hate to say it, but look at Halliburton. How many millions of tax-payer dollars has gone unaccounted for? How much else in questionable billing practices? Considering Mr. Bush’s stance on taxes, I don’t see him in a lather to take them to task for their lax accounting methods. No smoking gun here, but **someone’s** making a lot of money, and it aint the President or the average tax payer. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/53 "2005-08-25T12:22:55Z")
I agree. Bush has no need for something as simple as more money. He already has plenty and his family has plenty more. His big payoff was to be his glorious enshrinement as a successful war president, one of history’s “great men”. (No wimp one-termer, he.) Granted some already see him as such, and will inexplicably continue to do so - long after everything he’s touched has turned to excrement and he is finally tucked away into some unpleasant chapter of a history book he would never read himself. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/54 "2005-08-25T18:32:58Z")
> [@RTA](#): > > I agree. Bush has no need for something as simple as more money. He already has plenty and his family has plenty more. His big payoff was to be his glorious enshrinement as a successful war president, one of history’s “great men”. (No wimp one-termer, he.) He had that, but he’s blown the peace, IMO. Or perhaps he stayed in Iraq to get re-elected, and now that’s done, America will leave Iraq. The excuse being the formation of a properly constitutional Iraqi government, of course. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205/55 "2005-08-25T19:09:34Z")
More like, he blew the whole _war_ … AND stayed in Iraq, because he’s not enough of a man to say that he made a mistake. And by “mistake” I mean of course “willfully threw hundreds of thousands of lives down a rathole of ignorant, legacy-fixated machismo”. Good luck on that stable, properly constitutional Iraqi government, BTW. Excuse me if I don’t hold my breath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-bush-big-oil-and-iraq/318205.md?page=2)