I gather that in the realm of Chick comics, Satan is the one who accepts the sacrifice. And because he is forced to.
“That Old Devil” (1989) is where he first explicitly stated it. However I can’t find it currently at chick.com nor chickcomics.com. even the chickcomics.com review of it is available only if you purchase a book.
One unforgettable panel shows a post-crucifixion Jesus dropping in on old Nick and grabbing a keychain from his fiendish hand. This is to liberate the just souls waiting to enter heaven. Since ol’ pointy-tail seems to have nothing but bones for a hand one may wonder why this very aggessive move doesn’t pull his "hand’ apart.
So, if I die in a state of unredeemed sin, I am cast into the lake of fire for eternity, right?
But Jesus is going to atone for my sins, by dying…for three days?
If my sins are going to be redeemed, the redeemer must suffer the same punishment I was subject to, or the whole thing is a sham. Is God a sucker, or are we? Which is it?
I have read all the previous explanations, and none of them are satisfactory regarding this point.
Christ’s suffering was millions – billions! – of times more intense than yours or mine would (will) be. He suffered all the punishment for all sins! We’re just going to burn forever.
Yeah, it’s hogwash. What do you want? I always wonder why go through all the ritual and waste of time and unnecessary pain. Just issue a decree. Carve it on tablets, like Moses got, and hand it to the Temple Priests. The way it happened, it makes God into such a drama queen. Completely unnecessary.
Unless, of course, that bit about omnipotence isn’t true…
I wondered when someone would bring up this question. Jesus was supposedly sacrificed for our sins accrued when Eve and Adam ate the forbidden fruit of the garden of Eden. But it has some flaws because Jesus was part of the trinity of God. The Father, Son. and Holy Spirit. Jesus’ sacrifice had to be to propitiate God. If all this is correct Jesus was sacrificed to Himself or the Father which is not logical.
Actually Jesus was killed for His beliefs which I might add disturbed the high priests of the time. Jesus taught Love and even today “love one another” is not in style in our society. Too bad that people can’t see the benefit of His teaching.
I have thought for some time that the idea behind sacrificing a life to God is to give him any life other than one’s own.
For example, when an animal is sacrificed the idea is for God to take that life and spare us.
The sacrificing of Jesus became a once and for all substitute for repeated blood sacrifices of earlier religions, and fulfilled the same purpose, it hopefully satisfies God’s need to take someone and it ain’t us.
This explains too why we like to watch violent movies with people killing each other. Whenever we see someone killed on screen we subconsciously are pleased because God took this person and won’t be looking too soon for us.
Jeepers! My experience is exactly the opposite. I hate seeing characters killed in movies, because I regret the loss. It’s someone of some interest, whom now I will never get the meet. Even fictional characters’ deaths diminish me!
Maybe you both are confused because of the common expression “to sacrifice oneself for something” as in “He sacrificed himself for his country”.
Which comes down to giving their life for us.
As Prof. Pepperwinkle and others have explained, that is not how the concept of sacrifice was used in ancient times (and by some religions still today).
It is simply a gift to the gods/God, so they will look favorably upon the giver.
It doesn’t need to be a life per sé, goods can be sacrificed too, or food or drink. Usually it’s simple stuff; a bowl of rice, some grain, a bought effigy, some wine spilled on the ground. For special occasions people will, of course, sacrifice more expensive goods, if possible. For Jews around the time of Jesus that would be a sheep or goat, other peoples would sacrifice a bull or throw gold or weapons into lakes or rivers. (portals to the underworld).
Bits of old stories are left overs from this age. Like Excalibur being thrown to the ‘lady of the lake’ or the girl falling into a well and meeting Frau Holle (Hell, godess of the underworld).
Sometimes, in dire circumstances, humans were sacrificed in Bronze-age Europe. Here they weren’t as much gifts but messengers to the gods. Killed to personally bring a plea to Heaven.
Some of the bog finds may be such messengers.
It’s really hard to do, and it takes him a thousand years to recover, so there’s only been 2 sinless people born since then. I was the second, but I’ve been doing my best to make up for that.
I have no idea why you included me in this comment. I didn’t say or imply anything resembling this. For example, my post makes no reference to anyone sacrificing “himself” “for” anything.
Similarly, I’d say to you that when you use the phrase “a gift to the gods,” I don’t know what this can mean other than that it is “for” the gods.
Basically, I intentionally did not use the word “for” in my post exactly because of this kind of ambiguity.
Also, you’ll note that in the posts of mine that you are quoting in this latest post of yours, I am purporting to give the “traditional understanding.” Hence if you think that what I said there exhibits a misunderstanding, the confusion isn’t mine, it’s “tradition’s,” that is, unless what you’re trying to say is that I’ve got the “traditional understanding” all wrong.
To recap: The traditional understanding is that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross is intended to satisfy God in some sense or other. And I wonder whether any thinkers (preferably but not necessarily respected ones) have suggested that Christ’s sacrifice is intended to satisfy us instead. There’s no room here for talking about what I understand “satisfy” to mean, or whether I’m confused about that. I am making statements and asking questios about what others have said.
It’s no wonder Joseph Campbell referred to the resurrection as a clown act.
He only taught it part of the time. You didn’t want to piss him off. Did Jesus come to bring peace or a sword? I don’t know if Jesus ever said a kind word to his mother. Most mothers would have slapped the Jesus right out of 'em for talking the way he did to her. Writers doing the writing for him speak of eternal torment quite often, when Jehovah just had you dead once. In Luke it has Jesus saying to become one of his disciples one must hate mother, father, wife, children, even their own life.
Perhaps the most touching story I found of compassion was of him saving the adulteress, but even that had to be added much later, and wasn’t apart of older manuscripts.
I was expecting a negative answer to my post and you didn’t disappoint me.
While it is true that the writers of the gospels may not have got all the words of Jesus down or even got those they wrote completely correct. But main teaching of Jesus was Love and compassion. There is a reason for it, but it will only reveal itself if you follow the teachings. If you don’t understand them maybe I can help.
If the bible had a more positive message, you’d get a more positive answer. Likewise, I’m not disappointed in yet another way you find to wiggle in God or Jesus is Love bullshit in any thread. And as usual, never substantiating any of it, and ignoring scriptures that are contrary to what you claim.
The Bible is not a book. It is 66 books by 44 authors depending on which Bible we are talking about. Like any other part of life it contains some bad stuff and some good stuff. I have read it all the way through twice. I have never read a post here that even remotely understood what the Bible is all about. Jesus taught love period, but no one pays much attention. If they did they would understand what is happening in this world.
Does “bad stuff” mean inaccuracies and errors, or just disturbing things God did or ordered done? If the “bad stuff” are errors, who sorts it all out so we can ignore the mistakes? If the “bad stuff” is God-sponsored, then that gets more than a little contradictory.
Well, he took care of her by appointing another to be a surrogate son in his stead, so that she would be properly cared for in her old age. If it wasn’t a kind word, it was certainly an act of very significant kindness.
