# Question about "Elizabeth I." (miniseries from 2005): "Mum"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 30, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558 "2014-12-30T18:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/1 "2014-12-30T18:53:57Z")
Saw the first part yesterday in the German dub and was puzzled by one thing: Elizabeth was frequently addressed by several members of the court as “mum” (untranslated in the German dub). Is this historically accurate? If yes, I wonder about the familiarity of this address, let alone that Elizabeth was exactly known for _not_ being a mum. Did “mum” carry different connotations in the 16th century? Or was it a transcription error? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/2 "2014-12-30T18:57:51Z")
I always figured it was an earlier pronunciation of ma’am. ---
**Author:** ![apollonia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2bfe46/32.png) [@apollonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apollonia)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/3 "2014-12-30T18:59:05Z")
It’s a corruption of “ma’am,” short for madam, which is the correct way to address the Queen. [Madam - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madam) While I’m not familiar if it was in current parlance in Elizabeth I’s time, it’s current now, and it may have been a stylistic choice by the filmmakers. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/4 "2014-12-30T19:05:42Z")
In the police drama _Lewis_, Inspector Lewis calls his female superintendents (his bosses) “mum.” I was going to say it was just because he speaks with a Geordie accent but now I am wondering if others in the precinct say it too… But anyway, he means “ma’am.” ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/5 "2014-12-30T19:06:07Z")
Ah, hadn’t thought about that, and I have never heard “ma’am” being pronounced as “mum”. Is this a Britishism? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/6 "2014-12-30T20:24:33Z")
I believe so. The Duchess of York (the future Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother) mentions the pronunciation specifically in _The King’s Speech_. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/7 "2014-12-30T21:47:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I believe so. The Duchess of York (the future Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother) mentions the pronunciation specifically in _The King’s Speech_. She actually says: > [@](#): > > It’s ‘Your Majesty’ the first time. After that, it’s ‘ma’am’, as in ‘ham’. Not ‘ma’am’, as in ‘palm’. Which is consistent with what I’ve been told by those who’ve met HM. They were briefed that it rhymed with ‘jam’. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/8 "2014-12-30T21:59:34Z")
I seem to recall Nastassia Kinski using that sort of pronunciation (“mum”) in the movie “Tess.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/9 "2014-12-30T23:51:27Z")
IIRC, Daniel Craig does this _all the frickin’ time_ to Judi Dench in the Bond films. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/10 "2014-12-31T00:26:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > IIRC, Daniel Craig does this _all the frickin’ time_ to Judi Dench in the Bond films. So this ambiguity in pronunciation is sometimes played for laughs? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-elizabeth-i-miniseries-from-2005-mum/708558/11 "2014-12-31T01:36:05Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > She actually says… which is consistent with what I’ve been told by those who’ve met HM. They were briefed that it rhymed with ‘jam’. Huh. I must’ve misremembered it.