# Question about enemy pilots meeting postwar **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759 "2005-10-04T18:18:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/1 "2005-10-04T18:18:57Z")
I have heard that after WWII, some pilots of formerly enemy nations would meet up together. This sounds fascinating- were there any instances where two pilots dueled in the skies, then later met each other after the war? Perhaps in some token of reconciliation, for example. Compared to other forms of combat, dogfighting seems like the most impersonal. I don’t know what exactly a fighter pilot is thinking, but in my own head it seems more of a ‘destroy the enemy’s hardware’ than a ‘kill the guy flying that deathmachine over there’. It would be really interesting to have both pilots meet later in life and discuss what each was thinking at the time. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/2 "2005-10-04T18:28:43Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > I have heard that after WWII, some pilots of formerly enemy nations would meet up together. This sounds fascinating- were there any instances where two pilots dueled in the skies, then later met each other after the war? Perhaps in some token of reconciliation, for example. One striking example that comes immediately to mind is documented in this engaging tale: [The Evader: An American Airman’s Eight Months With the Dutch Underground](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0890159742/qid=1128450093/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1471449-6531114?v=glance&s=books) The author of this book wasn’t a fighter pilot tho’; he was crew on a B-24 Liberator. There’s a photo in it of him hoisting a brew in Germany with the German pilot who shot his plane down. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/3 "2005-10-04T18:30:08Z")
> [@UncleBeer](#): > > One striking example that comes immediately to mind is documented in this engaging tale: [The Evader: An American Airman’s Eight Months With the Dutch Underground](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0890159742/qid=1128450093/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1471449-6531114?v=glance&s=books) The author of this book wasn’t a fighter pilot tho’; he was crew on a B-24 Liberator. There’s a photo in it of him hoisting a brew in Germany with the German pilot who shot his plane down. :eek: Wow, guess he took that incident pretty well! “Sorry I shot your plane down back in WWII, let’s go have a beer.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/4 "2005-10-04T19:11:43Z")
Of course “UncleBeer” would know that they got together and had . . . beers 😛 ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/5 "2005-10-04T19:46:08Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > :eek: Wow, guess he took that incident pretty well! > > “Sorry I shot your plane down back in WWII, let’s go have a beer.” 😃 Well, the meeting occurred some 40 years later, so I s’pose he might have mellowed a bit. Really a very interesting book from a rather unique historical point of view. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/6 "2005-10-04T19:49:13Z")
Martin Caidin has documented several instances of this happening. The one that sticks in my mind involved a captured P-38 and a B-17 gunship. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2005, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/7 "2005-10-04T21:08:37Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > :eek: Wow, guess he took that incident pretty well! > > “Sorry I shot your plane down back in WWII, let’s go have a beer.” 😃 “No hard feelings?” “Nah, buy me a beer and we’ll call it quits.” ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/8 "2005-10-05T01:41:31Z")
Well, there were a fair number of German pilots who would have filled the upper ranks of the West German Airforce during the first part of the Cold War - naturally, they met their contempories during Nato exercises. One story (which, if it isn’t true really should be 😉 ) is that during the testing of the Harrier during the '60s, they brought in pilots from various Nato Air Forces to try it out. One of the W. German pilots, who was a WWII veteran, was bringing it to a landing in hover mode, but accidently cut out the engine a little early. The Harrier fell like a like a brick, and the landing crush the landing gear, and damaged the bottom. The German pilot got out of the airplane and said: “Make that one hundred and fifty- **seven** Allied aircraft destroyed.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/9 "2005-10-05T03:35:59Z")
I have no cite for this, but seem to recall it came from the super-reputatable Armed Forces Journal Monthly. At a cocktail party in Peking years ago, the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force determined he had shot down his drinking buddy, the Chief of Staff of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force. (“I thought you looked familiar.”) ---
**Author:** ![St\_Ides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@St\_Ides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/St_Ides)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/10 "2005-10-05T04:14:17Z")
In World War One, pilots often met on the ground… Provided they were both alive. If a pilot surrendered, it was still considered to be in good faith to land beside them and have a chat. Here’s an incident from Manfred Von Richtofen’s book [The Red Fighter Pilot](http://www.richthofen.com/) (Yes, he was also known as the Red Baron.) (Quote taken from chapter nine.) > [@](#): > > During a fight on quite a different section of the Front I had the good fortune to shoot into a Vickers’ two-seater which peacefully photographed the German artillery position. My friend, the photographer, had not the time to defend himself. He had to make haste to get down upon firm ground for his machine began to give suspicious indications of fire. When we airmen notice that phenomenon in an enemy plane, we say: “He stinks!” As it turned out it was really so. When the machine was coming to earth it burst into flames. > > I felt some human pity for my opponent and had resolved not to cause him to fall down but merely to compel him to land. I did so particularly because I had the impression that my opponent was wounded for he did not fire a single shot. > > When I had got down to an altitude of about fifteen hundred feet engine trouble compelled me to land without making any curves. The result was very comical. My enemy with his burning machine landed smoothly while I, his victor, came down next to him in the barbed wire of our trenches and my machine overturned. > > The two Englishmen who were not a little surprised at my collapse, greeted me like sportsmen. As mentioned before, they had not fired a shot and they could not understand why I had landed so clumsily. They were the first two Englishmen whom I had brought down alive. Consequently, it gave me particular pleasure to talk to them. I asked them whether they had previously seen my machine in the air, and one of them replied, “Oh, yes. I know your machine very well. We call it ‘Le Petit Rouge’.” Of course, in this case, the reason they both landed wasn’t simply to chat, but it gets the point across. The way I see it is; “I shot him down. I know it, he knows it, now let’s go home and have a brandy.” Besides, back then it was as dangerous to takeoff and land as being in combat… I think they caused approximately equal casualties. So you’d still get a sense of cameraderie and respect between the pilots, for simply surviving long enough to land and talk. Unfortunately, I don’t seem to be able to find a bok that I have that contains pictures of the Baron talking with various other opposing aircrews. I think I lost it when I moved. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/11 "2005-10-05T04:16:52Z")
I remember at the Oshkosh Experimental Aircraft Fly-in some years back, 1983 or '84 I think it was, Pappy Boyington (Marine fighter ace, Medal of Honor winner) had a booth where he was signing autographs and selling copies of his autobiography, Baa Baa Black Sheep. In the next booth was his longtime friend and drinking buddy, Masajiro “Mike” Kawato, who as an eighteen year old rookie pilot had shot down Boyington in 1944. He was selling his autobiography, called “Bye Bye Black Sheep.” ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/12 "2005-10-05T05:01:26Z")
ISTR a story about an American pilot and a Japanese pilot who, after WWII, got together and started an airline of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/13 "2005-10-05T05:29:04Z")
Not pilots getting together but a very good friend of mine was a German anti-aircraft gunner late in WWII. His only comment, “Well I missed, didn’t I?” ---
**Author:** ![Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fromage\_A\_Trois](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fromage_A_Trois)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/14 "2005-10-05T10:30:54Z")
[Simon Weston](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Weston) wasn’t a pilot, but was injured when the ship he was on was bombed by Argentinian aircraft during the Falklands War. He has since met the pilot that bombed the ship, and I believe their families meet up regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/15 "2005-10-05T12:10:28Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Not pilots getting together but a very good friend of mine was a German anti-aircraft gunner late in WWII. > > His only comment, “Well I missed, didn’t I?” **Dave Simmons** wins the internet! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/16 "2005-10-05T12:34:13Z")
I remember reading about a case of an American pilot and a Japanese pilot meeting years after the way. One of them had written a book about his experiences, and the other recognized the enemy fighter as himself from the description of what happened. It was in one of those Sunday supplements – “Parade” or something, _ages_ ago. The inmates from Stalag Luft III (the setting for “The Great Escape”) used to bring over some of the German guards and officers for their reunions, I understand. They were all pilots (It was a Grman Air Force pOW camp) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/17 "2005-10-05T15:24:25Z")
_Naval History_ magazine recently had an article about a former \*Kamikaze \* pilot (yes, there are such things) who just died a year or so ago. For many years he attended the reunions of the crew of the U.S. warship which shot him down. From all the propaganda with which he’d indoctrinated, he expected to be tortured and murdered, and was astonished to be treated very well by the crew and kind of “adopted” by them, forming some lifelong friendships. Jeffrey Archer wrote a pretty good short story, whose name now escapes me, about a pair of guards at a WW2 Japanese POW camp who befriend a British officer who’s a prisoner there (not a common occurrence at the usually-hellish Japanese POW camps, to be sure). Immediately after the Japanese surrender, the British officer vouches for the two soldiers to save them from execution for war crimes. Many, many years later, they’ve become very successful businessmen and the Brit has become an Anglican bishop. They write a big check to save his cathedral as a long-delayed token of their gratitude. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/18 "2005-10-05T15:43:28Z")
I remember a Bob Stevens cartoon. I Bf-109 is flying over the ETO shortly after D-Day. I P-51D pounces on him and the German pilot bails out of his burning aircraft. Upon being captured the German says, ‘I am Oberst Heinrich von Heidelberg! I have one hundred and fifty-two victories. One hundred fifty-two! I _demand_ to meet the pilot who shot me down!’ A pimply-faced second-lieutenant introduces himself. ‘_YOU?_’ shouts the German colonel. ‘You _boy?_ You _puppy?_ I have one hundred fifty-two victories! How many do _you_ have?’ The 2LT replies, ‘One, sir.’ 😃 [sub]Dialog approximate.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-enemy-pilots-meeting-postwar/324759/19 "2005-10-05T17:00:23Z")
Here’s a link that talks about German Ace Galland meeting with other pilots long after WWII ended. [http://www.senioryears.com/bezant21.html](http://www.senioryears.com/bezant21.html)