# Question about fundamentalist polygynous Mormons **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 15, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427 "2011-04-15T01:24:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/21 "2011-04-15T16:57:08Z")
**Simplicio** and **chacoguy** are both right, in a way. This is not a sustainable plan–it’s the family planning equivalent of a pyramid scheme. If this were how it was working in reality, then the fundamentalist Mormons would be able to completely overrun the planet with their exponential population growth within 2-3 centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/22 "2011-04-15T17:12:05Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > **Simplicio** and **chacoguy** are both right, in a way. This is not a sustainable plan–it’s the family planning equivalent of a pyramid scheme. If this were how it was working in reality, then the fundamentalist Mormons would be able to completely overrun the planet with their exponential population growth within 2-3 centuries. Certainly at some point the growing population necessary to sustain polygamy will hit problems. But there are plenty of monogamous societies that have had large amounts of population growth as well. When they excede the local carrying capacity, they either invent better farming methods or send out colonists to found new communities. And from the Mormon point of view, we’re living in the end times, so the world being filled up with too many Mormons several millennia down the road probably isn’t something they worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/23 "2011-04-15T17:14:50Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > These questions concerning the theological basis for polygamy should be addressed by the mainstream LDS church, because it is responsible for the doctrine. Why? They’ve officially repudiated it, haven’t they? If they’re not preaching it, it’s not their responsibility, the past be damned. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/24 "2011-04-15T20:35:43Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Those sisters are going to be producing boys as well as girls, you know. And the excess males don’t start dying off in greater numbers until they reach something like 65 or 70. So you’re gonna have an excess of females who are in the 50+ range. Remember, these guys like to marry YOUNG gilrs. As in girls in their teens, or even younger. This means that there’s always gonna be males in the 25-65 range who don’t have wives. Unless those excess males are kicked out of the community, which is what is happening now. I was wondering; what happens to older wives (50-70 years old) who are suddenly alone, due to their husbands being excommunicated or death? Are they dumped out on an interstate as well? ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/25 "2011-04-15T20:42:35Z")
> [@medstar](#): > > I was wondering; what happens to older wives (50-70 years old) who are suddenly alone, due to their husbands being excommunicated or death? Are they dumped out on an interstate as well? No. They are “assigned” to other men. Neither they nor their new husbands have any say in the matter. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/26 "2011-04-16T11:08:03Z")
**Simplicio** , the big flaw in your plan is assuming the older males will want to share the younger females. When the older males in polygamous communities get rid of the younger males, that means _even more_ younger females are available for them. They don’t stop at just two girls, they take as much underage pussy as they can get and getting rid of the teenage boys is less competition. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/27 "2011-04-16T11:54:09Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Even if you didn’t wait one generation, Mormons aren’t a contained population. If a guy can’t get a wife from within the population, he can go out and convert one. It puts a new meaning to missionary work. > > And, from what I understand, there is actually a shortage of single men in Mormonism, not women. A quick google reveals this from [BYU’s encyclopedia](http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/EoM&CISOPTR=4391&CISOSHOW=4316&REC=1%7C) (granted from 1992): “For example, among singles over age 30 who attend church weekly, there are only 19 men for every 100 women.” It also includes a chart (Figure 11) showing that only Africa has more men than women. The U.S. (including Utah) are balanced at the same rate as the rest of the population, but everywhere else women outnumber men. Except the women who are mainstream LDS are the ‘extras’ as it were, and have been taught the FLDS are heretics, while the extra young men who are FLDS have been taught the same about mainstream LDS. Some might budge from that mindset in order to marry, if they were all in one place and had the opportunity to do so w/o retribution from the respective churches but that’s unlikely to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/28 "2011-04-16T12:17:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Your thinking about it incorrectly. If people were married for life, instantly upon their births, then to give each man two wives you’d need a 2-1 female male mix, as you say. But by having people spend a large chunk of their lives unmarried (40 years, if each woman is married on her 20th birthday), you can have an even number of men and woman born to each generation and still provide two wives to each man. > > Say our founder generation (g1) is one 40 yearold man. g2 is two 20 year old men and 2 20 year old woman. Older man takes the two g2 woman as wives and impregnates them so that they each have two boys and two girls (g3). Now the boys from g2 have to wait till the g3 girls grow up, but then they can each have a pair of wives of their own. > > But then what do the boys from g3 do? The same thing their fathers did, wait for the next generation. Indeed, think about it a bit and you’ll see that every new generation will have this option. As long as each generation is twice as large as the one previous to it (so four children per woman), then the process can go on without end. There are two main problems to your pyramid scheme. First, the FLDS say a man needs at least _three_ wives, not two. Second, the old geezers running the show don’t want to stop at three. These guys have _dozens_ of wives. Jeffs has probably claimed _hundreds_ of women for himself. There is no way human women can pop out enough girl children to keep these old perverts happy, it’s just not physically possilbe. So the younger competition has to be disposed of. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/29 "2011-04-16T12:27:22Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Why? They’ve officially repudiated it, haven’t they? If they’re not preaching it, it’s not their responsibility, the past be damned. They have not officially repudiated it, although they spin it as such. They have simply temporarily suspended the practice, after being forced to by the federal government, and the doctrine is still official. No one has ever repudiated the statements that a man must be polygamous in order to enter the highest degree of glory in the after life. That isn’t stressed now, but it also hasn’t been rejected either. So, I think it’s valid to ask the Mormon church if the teachings are valid or not, and if so, then how will the math work. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/30 "2011-04-16T12:35:06Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > They have not officially repudiated it, although they spin it as such. > > They have simply temporarily suspended the practice, after being forced to by the federal government, and the doctrine is still official. > > \*\*No one has ever repudiated the statements that a man must be polygamous in order to enter the highest degree of glory in the after life. That isn’t stressed now, but it also hasn’t been rejected either. \*\* > > So, I think it’s valid to ask the Mormon church if the teachings are valid or not, and if so, then how will the math work. Does it count if my next door neighbor who’s an LDS in good standing repudiates it? She’s not one to challenge LDS doctrine so I don’t see her as being somehow rogue. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/31 "2011-04-16T14:58:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Even if you didn’t wait one generation, Mormons aren’t a contained population. If a guy can’t get a wife from within the population, he can go out and convert one. It puts a new meaning to missionary work. > > And, from what I understand, there is actually a shortage of single men in Mormonism, not women. A quick google reveals this from [BYU’s encyclopedia](http://contentdm.lib.byu.edu/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/EoM&CISOPTR=4391&CISOSHOW=4316&REC=1%7C) (granted from 1992): “For example, among singles over age 30 who attend church weekly, there are only 19 men for every 100 women.” It also includes a chart (Figure 11) showing that only Africa has more men than women. The U.S. (including Utah) are balanced at the same rate as the rest of the population, but everywhere else women outnumber men. I read somewhere that the mainstream LDS missionaries active in Japan tend to convert a lot of young girls, to the point where there is a serious lack of Mormon husbands for them, which is a problem expecially because of their marriage doctrines. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427/32 "2011-04-16T15:58:54Z")
John D. Fitzgerald, who wrote the _Great Brain_ books for kids, also wrote a less fictionalized version of his upbringing in Utah territory, titled _Papa Married a Mormon_. His mother’s parents were converts to the Mormon faith, and emigrated to the US to become part of the westward migration. At one point, after the family is settled, their bishop visits(he has three wives himself) and tells the father he should marry another wife. One of the reasons is that at that time there were more female converts than male, and the church hoped to get them married off. But the bishop doesn’t insist when the proposition is rejected. Also, the book says the bishop respected the difference in beliefs as to whether plural marriage was necessary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-fundamentalist-polygynous-mormons/578427.md?page=1)