# Question about Glenngary Glen Ross (spoiler) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 5, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356 "2015-07-05T22:44:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/21 "2015-07-06T14:58:13Z")
I never watched the film until after I started working in a county that is ground zero for a huge portion of the archetypal Florida land scam sites. So I know that depending on when the film is set, they could be selling land that is utterly worthless through being so difficult or expensive to develop that that there’s no way to ever use it or resell it short of using GGGR tactics. IIRC, the sales men use tactics that are definitely immoral and sometimes illegal to get their up front commissions. Often, the tactics have nothing to do with the product. They pressure with other stuff like an insult to your manhood or your compassion to help them out. My roommate from the time I saw GGGR liked the film because of all the times he had to sit through real life versions of the “Always Be Closing” speech when he worked at Montgomery Ward. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/22 "2015-07-07T03:23:00Z")
IIRC they mention Rio Ranchos, a famous land scam in New Mexico, which my father got taken in on. I still have the lot - my kids will be inheriting it before it becomes valuable. He didn’t get his money back because our land can be exchanged for land near town, but we have to move their and build on it. No thanks. The Rio Ranchos mention is evidence the land is pretty much worthless. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/23 "2015-07-07T03:35:26Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Are you kidding?! The very core of the film is that these individuals have long since sold every shred of their souls. > [@Voyager](#): > > IIRC they mention Rio Ranchos, a famous land scam in New Mexico Both of these are spot on. I think that a viewer that doesn’t get that what is being sold is worthless is missing a large piece of the story’s impact. The whole relationship between Pryce’s neediness and longing for human contact and Pacino’s pitching of a worthless “investment” as the cure for his problems is just brutal. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/24 "2015-07-07T06:13:18Z")
2 things that make me question the “swampland” theory: 1. The play was written in the early 1980s, 20 years after the states of New York and Florida outlawed selling swampland. If they were doing something illegal, I can’t imagine the first thing they would do after the burglary was . . . call the police. Kind like a pot dealer calling 911 after getting robbed of his stash. 2. The way the salesmen were verbally abused I can’t believe not one of them would get red-assed and tip off the FBI. Ricky Roma himself surely could get a legit sales job making as much money selling something legal. Another thing that makes me thing it MIGHT have been a legal, if not 100% ethical, scheme was a trip I took with my father around 1981-1982. He was a PA custom home builder and realtor, and he visited a friend of his from the industry that migrated South and who was living north of Tampa in Hernando County who was wining and dining and high pressuring my father to invest in his real estate development scheme. In between schmooze meetings my father decided to take a drive through one of these supposedly hot developments that were being built, and it was mile after mile after mile of new ranch homes up for sale but barely any were occupied. I was only 13 at the time and I remember this like it was yesterday, it looked like one of those unoccupied new Chinese cities you read about on the Internet, except it was all houses. My father politely declined and about 2 years later his friend was bankrupt as were many many others in the real estate industry when the Florida real estate bubble blew up in the 80s. Im thinking Mitch & Murray were trying to do the same thing: get customers to invest in legit but over-priced real estate without them seeing what was really going on down south. ---
**Author:** ![mariyajohnson02](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@mariyajohnson02](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mariyajohnson02)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/25 "2015-07-07T07:55:16Z")
It was clear to me personally; so yes. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/26 "2015-07-07T10:30:54Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > They’re not very immoral to me; they’re just work a day types that need to make ends meet. They tell a lie that people people who can afford to lose money want to want to believe. > > IMHO the type of person who is immoral is the one who doesn’t do what they can to support themselves but wants other people (family, society etc.) to ultimately support them while they sit around all day on their high horse thinking about how immoral everyone is. YMMV. It helps to imagine the fleeced customers as professors and administers of liberal arts colleges. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/27 "2015-07-07T11:54:42Z")
> [@Mr.Nylock](#): > > They’re not very immoral to me; they’re just work a day types that need to make ends meet. That’s pretty much Mamet’s intention. > [@](#): > > And, in a 2001 compilation of interviews with Mamet [David Mamet in Conversation, University of Michigan Press], he told the interviewer that the script for Glengarry Glen Ross was the product of his interest in working-class individuals and the struggles they endure: > > Hank Nuwer: What is the premise behind Glengarry Glen Ross? > > David Mamet: This play is very much about work and about how one is altered by one’s job. > > Hank Nuwer: The main characters are real estate salesmen whose job is peddling worthless property. Are you dumping on such salesmen? > > David Mamet: I don’t write plays to dump on people. I write plays about people whom I love and am fascinated by. A lot of times I want to write letters to newspapers to dump on people, but, gratefully, I can usually resist that impulse. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/28 "2015-07-07T11:55:09Z")
Count me as the exception who didn’t think much about the land either way, other than the fact that it might be less desirable/harder to sell. And I don’t think there’s anything explicit in the text to say it’s swampland, though I suppose you could extend their sleaziness to that inference. But I don’t think it’s important at all to the character study. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/29 "2015-07-07T12:35:25Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > 2 things that make me question the “swampland” theory: > > 1. The play was written in the early 1980s, 20 years after the states of New York and Florida outlawed selling swampland. If they were doing something illegal, I can’t imagine the first thing they would do after the burglary was . . . call the police. Kind like a pot dealer calling 911 after getting robbed of his stash. > > 2. The way the salesmen were verbally abused I can’t believe not one of them would get red-assed and tip off the FBI. Ricky Roma himself surely could get a legit sales job making as much money selling something legal. > > Another thing that makes me thing it MIGHT have been a legal, if not 100% ethical, scheme was a trip I took with my father around 1981-1982. He was a PA custom home builder and realtor, and he visited a friend of his from the industry that migrated South and who was living north of Tampa in Hernando County who was wining and dining and high pressuring my father to invest in his real estate development scheme. > > In between schmooze meetings my father decided to take a drive through one of these supposedly hot developments that were being built, and it was mile after mile after mile of new ranch homes up for sale but barely any were occupied. I was only 13 at the time and I remember this like it was yesterday, it looked like one of those unoccupied new Chinese cities you read about on the Internet, except it was all houses. > > My father politely declined and about 2 years later his friend was bankrupt as were many many others in the real estate industry when the Florida real estate bubble blew up in the 80s. > > Im thinking Mitch & Murray were trying to do the same thing: get customers to invest in legit but over-priced real estate without them seeing what was really going on down south. What was wrong with the homes? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/30 "2015-07-07T12:41:45Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Count me as the exception who didn’t think much about the land either way, other than the fact that it might be less desirable/harder to sell. And I don’t think there’s anything explicit in the text to say it’s swampland, though I suppose you could extend their sleaziness to that inference. But I don’t think it’s important at all to the character study. Yeah, it somehow never occurred to me they were doing the famous Florida swampland con. It never was important what exactly they were selling. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/31 "2015-07-07T12:59:14Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What was wrong with the homes? Nobody was buying them. As enticing as no neighbors may sometimes be, it means no local businesses, no tax support for infrastructure improvement, distant schools, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/32 "2015-07-07T13:42:51Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What was wrong with the homes? Sometimes, the subdivision is in the middle of nowhere, 10-20 miles from any other development. if you’re lucky, there’s citrus fields nearby. But most likely, it’s cattle grazing which magnifies the feeling of isolation. And there’s _so many lots_ that the few people who do move out there are still surrounded by empty homes are even just empty lots. Really gives the place a post-apocalyptic feel. Look up places like Lehigh Acres, Golden Gate estates, and The Rotunda, all in S. FLA, to get a feel of what it can be like. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/33 "2015-07-07T13:50:30Z")
Right, even if there’s nothing intrinsecally bad about the land, it’s property that is highly likely to leave you “upside down” later on. But as mentioned the point is that whatever is it they’re selling, it’s a market where they’re driven to cutthroat competition and it damages them. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/34 "2015-07-07T13:57:29Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Count me as the exception who didn’t think much about the land either way, other than the fact that it might be less desirable/harder to sell. And I don’t think there’s anything explicit in the text to say it’s swampland, though I suppose you could extend their sleaziness to that inference. But I don’t think it’s important at all to the character study. Well, Mamet doesn’t debate the interviewer’s remark about “peddling worthless property” so, whether or not it’s literally covered with water and alligators, it seems safe to assume that they’re in the business of selling garbage real estate to unsuspecting people. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/35 "2015-07-07T16:18:50Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > I never watched the film until after I started working in a county that is ground zero for a huge portion of the archetypal Florida land scam sites I know the feeling; I won’t watch _Titanic_ until after I’ve been shipwrecked in the North Atlantic. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/36 "2015-07-07T16:28:04Z")
Most real-life salesmen that I’ve known spend a lot of time obsessing about the product they’re selling. If they bitch, they bitch about their employer for failing to keep the product competitive (how can I sell this shit?) or for demanding too high a price. The GGR salesmen, by contrast, care not a whit about their product. All they obsess over and bitch about are _the leads_. The product is irrelevant; the mark is everything. That’s telling. I think we can safely infer that the proferred land isn’t likely to be a great investment, just from the manner in which it’s being sold. If it were choice land, likely to be snapped up within a few years for commercial or residential development, it would be sold by and to men and women with briefcases and prospectuses sitting around a conference table, not from a boiler room. That said, there is also no reason to believe that the salesmen are out-and-out fraudulent. I assume they are conveying valid title deeds to property that really exists. The property just isn’t likely to be worth more than the mark pays for a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/37 "2015-07-07T16:49:06Z")
They are shady and sleazy at the least. They are selling things to people who don’t want them, don’t need them, and they are creating a need/desire. No different from ad salesmen, but if the land was in fact swampland, that pushes them over to immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/38 "2015-07-07T23:08:34Z")
> [@](#): > > David Mamet: This play is very much about work and about how one is altered by one’s job. I find it difficult to believe that Mamet doesn’t also mean that although they may have started as (semi-) decent individuals, the job has ‘altered’ them into soulless shells of humanity. And no, GGGR is not primarily an exposé on sleazy real estate sales businesses, anymore than \*Death of a Salesman \*is solely a Marxist condemnation of capitalism. Like most all plays it’s first & foremost an examination of the human condition. But the two are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/39 "2015-07-08T00:06:11Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > The GGR salesmen, by contrast, care not a whit about their product. All they obsess over and bitch about are _the leads_. The product is irrelevant; the mark is everything. That’s telling. The leads are fine. Mitch and Murray paid good money for those leads. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356/40 "2015-07-08T01:46:54Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Most real-life salesmen that I’ve known spend a lot of time obsessing about the product they’re selling. If they bitch, they bitch about their employer for failing to keep the product competitive (how can I sell this shit?) or for demanding too high a price. YES!!! And the fucking leads. I’m not shit; normally I’m damned good at this because I understand the prospect’s needs (no thanks to you, training people) and work to not jack them around or get pushy (with my pre-sales commissions topping out at twelve bucks I’m hardly motivated to get sleazy), but lately the leads truly are shit. When the product is intended for WalMart Corporate in Arkansas, don’t have me calling _ **A** _ WalMart in Tampa! They have no use for it, and I’m embarrassed to be calling them, so I have to come up with sneaky ways to dispose of the shittiest leads without it reflecting badly on me. And where are the upgrades? The last upgrades I heard about came a year ago, and that’s a century in software time. Maybe there are new ones, but nobody has told me, so I avoid mentioning the version number. Unlike my cohorts, who follow the inane and misleading\* script religiously. But it’s not a boiler room. The outfit on the floor below is, and people have quit and gone there because the money’s supposed to be better. Except there’s a lot of pressure to sell and the commissions are paid by the outside salesmen out of their cut. When they feel like it. Then they quit and come back upstairs because we are the Hotel California of telemarketing. - - ETA: Not misleading for sleazy reasons. Misleading because the person whom wrote it knows little about the product, who we’re calling, and how to motivate them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-glenngary-glen-ross-spoiler/724356.md?page=3)