# Question about Heinlein's "The Past Through Tomorrow"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 1, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463 "2012-05-01T00:24:28Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/1 "2012-05-01T00:24:28Z")
Heinlein’s The Past Through Tomorrow collects the stories from his Future History including two short novels (“If This Goes On” (aka “Revolt in 2100”) and Methuselah’s Children). It contains the famous timeline describing the social and historical factors going on for several hundred years [http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/1439133417/1439133417\_\_\_1.htm](http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/1439133417/1439133417___1.htm) . However, for some reason, one of the stories that is on the timeline (“Let There Be Light”) isn’t included in the book - it’s only collected in another collection of stories (The Man Who Sold the Moon (which has the early future history stories (up to “Requium”). Does anyone know why “Let There Be Light” isn’t included in PTT?
P.S. I think a couple of stories that are in PTT don’t fit into the Future History - but that’s another story…
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### Author:  [@Scupper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scupper)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/2 "2012-05-01T00:48:55Z")
The reviewer [here](http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Heinlein/Let-There-Be-Light.html) speculates that Heinlein may have become disenchanted with the early story’s populist ideas and anti-big business message, and thus left it out of later collections. Apparently the characters are left out of his important characters list for the Future History as well.
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/3 "2012-05-01T00:58:19Z")
> [@Scupper](#):
>
> The reviewer [here](http://www.troynovant.com/Franson/Heinlein/Let-There-Be-Light.html) speculates that Heinlein may have become disenchanted with the early story’s populist ideas and anti-big business message, and thus left it out of later collections. Apparently the characters are left out of his important characters list for the Future History as well.
That could be - but “Lifeline” which is in “The Past Through Tomorrow” features a consortium of business interests arranging to have a rival killed.
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/4 "2012-05-01T01:26:34Z")
I read somewhere (I think in Gifford’s _Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader’s Companion_) that Heinlein didn’t like the “slangy” dialogue in _Let There Be Light_. (If so, he was wrong–the dialogue makes the story).
Fun Fact: there’s two versions of “Let There Be Light” A “raunchy” (not my word) one and a “clean” one. The older your copy of _The Man Who Sold The Moon_ is, the more likely it’s the “dirty” one\*. If your _Man Who Sold The Moon_ has 6 stories and if Douglas compares Martin to Betty Grable, it’s the “raunchy” version. If your copy of _Man Who Sold the Moon_ has _four_ stories and Douglas compares Martin to Marilyn Monroe, it’s the cleaned-up version. The “raunchy” version is much better–the dialogue is just faster-paced and…snappier.
Also, I’ve never found out why “We Also Walk Dogs” is in _Past Through Tomorrow_ since it features multiple alien species in the solar system, anti-gravity plates and other stuff that simply doesn’t exist in the Future History. Anyone know why?
\*And it isn’t even remotely “raunchy”.
ETA: I checked–it was Gifford’s book. Heinlein wasn’t fond of the quality of the story and “perhaps” the editor of _Past Through Tomorrow_ didn’t like it so they omitted it. Which doesn’t make sense, since Douglas-Martin Sunstones(?) are mentioned throughout the rest of the future history, even in his last book (_To Sail Beyond the Sunset_)
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/5 "2012-05-01T01:35:20Z")
> [@Fenris](#):
>
> I read somewhere (I think in Gifford’s _Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader’s Companion_) that Heinlein didn’t like the “slangy” dialogue in _Let There Be Light_. (If so, he was wrong–the dialogue makes the story).
>
> Fun Fact: there’s two versions of “Let There Be Light” A “raunchy” (not my word) one and a “clean” one. The older your copy of _The Man Who Sold The Moon_ is, the more likely it’s the “dirty” one\*. If your _Man Who Sold The Moon_ has 6 stories and if Douglas compares Martin to Betty Grable, it’s the “raunchy” version. If your copy of _Man Who Sold the Moon_ has _four_ stories and Douglas compares Martin to Marilyn Monroe, it’s the cleaned-up version. The “raunchy” version is much better–the dialogue is just faster-paced and…snappier.
>
> Also, I’ve never found out why “We Also Walk Dogs” is in _Past Through Tomorrow_ since it features multiple alien species in the solar system, anti-gravity plates and other stuff that simply doesn’t exist in the Future History. Anyone know why?
>
> \*And it isn’t even remotely “raunchy”.
>
> ETA: I checked–it was Gifford’s book. Heinlein wasn’t fond of the quality of the story and “perhaps” the editor of _Past Through Tomorrow_ didn’t like it so they omitted it. Which doesn’t make sense, since Douglas-Martin Sunstones(?) are mentioned throughout the rest of the future history, even in his last book (_To Sail Beyond the Sunset_)
Thanks.
Agree about “We Also Walk Dogs.” “The Long Watch” also doesn’t see to fit, since it is a prequel to “Space Cadet” (it’s hard to fit the Space Patrol in the same universe as Scudder).
P.S. I’m not sure which version of “The Man Who Sold The Moon” I have (I’ve misplaced it somewhere in my house, and haven’t had the chance to look thoroughly for it).
PPS. I knew there was a rauchy and non-rauchy version of his non-SF story “They Do it With Mirrors”
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### Author:  [@Sam\_A.Robrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_A.Robrin)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/6 "2012-05-01T02:20:44Z")
It didn’t take much to qualify as “raunchy” in those days–the “daring” and “suggestive” titles of Rhysling’s uncollected songs are also indicative of that.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/7 "2012-05-01T04:02:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Agree about “We Also Walk Dogs.” “The Long Watch” also doesn’t see to fit, since it is a prequel to “Space Cadet” (it’s hard to fit the Space Patrol in the same universe as Scudder).
The stories leading up to Nehemiah Scudder have humans on plantations on Venus with enslaved Vesuvians that sound consistent with those in _Space Cadet_. And it’s not too hard to imagine the US withdrawing from the relevant treaties around that time, so they just might fit. Still, it’s certainly not definitive.
BTW, don’t bump it because it’s ancient, but a decade ago I posted [a thread about which stories were and were not in the Future History](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=148178). I ended up concluding that “We Also Walk Dogs” was certainly not the same continuity, “The Menace from Earth” probably wasn’t, “The Long Watch”, “Gentlemen, Be Seated”, “Searchlight”, and “Ordeal in Space” might or might not be, and all the rest (plus “Let There be Light”, _Time Enough for Love_, and _Farmer in the Sky_) are.
> [@](#):
>
> PPS. I knew there was a rauchy and non-rauchy version of his non-SF story “They Do it With Mirrors”
Wait, wasn’t that one set in a strip club? How did he de-raunch that?
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/8 "2012-05-02T00:26:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The stories leading up to Nehemiah Scudder have humans on plantations on Venus with enslaved Vesuvians that sound consistent with those in _Space Cadet_. And it’s not too hard to imagine the US withdrawing from the relevant treaties around that time, so they just might fit. Still, it’s certainly not definitive.
>
> BTW, don’t bump it because it’s ancient, but a decade ago I posted [a thread about which stories were and were not in the Future History](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=148178). I ended up concluding that “We Also Walk Dogs” was certainly not the same continuity, “The Menace from Earth” probably wasn’t, “The Long Watch”, “Gentlemen, Be Seated”, “Searchlight”, and “Ordeal in Space” might or might not be, and all the rest (plus “Let There be Light”, _Time Enough for Love_, and _Farmer in the Sky_) are.
>
> Wait, wasn’t that one set in a strip club? How did he de-raunch that?
Thanks for the link to the old thread. As far as the Strip club story goes, he talks about how the version published in Expanded Universe was the original rauchy version, he doesn’t mention how it was bowderized for publication
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/9 "2012-05-02T00:46:54Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#):
>
> Thanks for the link to the old thread. As far as the Strip club story goes, he talks about how the version published in Expanded Universe was the original rauchy version, he doesn’t mention how it was bowderized for publication
Doesn’t seem to be discussed in “Grumbles” either (or at least I didn’t find it in a quick skim)
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### Author:  [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/10 "2012-05-02T01:12:30Z")
Once again, Gifford’s masterful _Robert Heinlein: A Reader’s Companion_ comes to the rescue. 😉
> [@Gifford](#):
>
> It was generally not okay to assume in 1947 magazine fiction that unmarried couples tumbled into bed for fun, nor was it acceptable to have a woman parading around naked with a man not her husband–or indeed, at all. The story is quite mild by 1980\* and later standards, but risque by late 1940s mores. Thus, the final scene is missing from the magazine version as is the reference to the murder victim being a virgin and many of the passages describing the woman’s physical charms.
If you’re a Heinlein fan, you gotta get this book. 🙂
\*When _Expanded Universe_ was published and when Heinlein challenged the readers to see with the “clean” version cut (the _EU_ version was the dirty one).
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### Author:  [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/11 "2012-05-02T23:17:19Z")
Some of Heinlein’s books were cut for length, others were cut for content. The uncut _Stranger in a Strange Land_ adds nothing but a bit of Heinlein flavor - you may as well read the published version.
The uncut _Puppet Masters_, on the other hand is a very different novel from the published version, as is the uncut _Podkane of Mars_. Both are well worth looking for the full version.
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### Author:  [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/12 "2012-05-02T23:19:09Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#):
>
> The uncut _Puppet Masters_, on the other hand is a very different novel from the published version, as is the uncut _Podkane of Mars_. Both are well worth looking for the full version.
Where would one find them?
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### Author:  [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/13 "2012-05-02T23:46:06Z")
Chronos: If I recall correctly, the slaves on VEnus were indentured human servants. I don’t recall any natives being enslaved, but maybe I need to read “Logic of Empire” again.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/14 "2012-05-02T23:48:07Z")
Both have been released in paperback format. A quick tour of ebay should do you.
The definitive Virginia Edition has a great deal of uncut stuff too. The books are edited to get at the original publication format. Red Planet, for example, contains a significant pro-gun argument that doesn’t exist in the popular version as well as some earlier ‘girl-power’ paragraphs from the daughter.
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### Author:  [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/15 "2012-05-02T23:56:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#):
>
> The stories leading up to Nehemiah Scudder have humans on plantations on Venus with enslaved Vesuvians that sound consistent with those in _Space Cadet_. And it’s not too hard to imagine the US withdrawing from the relevant treaties around that time, so they just might fit. Still, it’s certainly not definitive.
>
> BTW, don’t bump it because it’s ancient, but a decade ago I posted [a thread about which stories were and were not in the Future History](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=148178). I ended up concluding that “We Also Walk Dogs” was certainly not the same continuity, “The Menace from Earth” probably wasn’t, “The Long Watch”, “Gentlemen, Be Seated”, “Searchlight”, and “Ordeal in Space” might or might not be, and all the rest (plus “Let There be Light”, _Time Enough for Love_, and _Farmer in the Sky_) are.
>
> Wait, wasn’t that one set in a strip club? How did he de-raunch that?
Chronos - I didn’t want to bump the old thread, but I think that _Menace_ belongs. There is a line about how she and the boy were working on the designs for the ship, a ship that I think is the one in _Methusalahs Children_.
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/16 "2012-05-03T00:03:06Z")
> [@squeegee](#):
>
> Where would one find them?
The most recent editions you’d find for any of those works would be the uncut versions, I think
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2012, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-heinleins-the-past-through-tomorrow/620463/17 "2012-05-03T00:11:23Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#):
>
> Some of Heinlein’s books were cut for length, others were cut for content. The uncut _Stranger in a Strange Land_ adds nothing but a bit of Heinlein flavor - you may as well read the published version.
>
> The uncut _Puppet Masters_, on the other hand is a very different novel from the published version, as is the uncut _Podkane of Mars_. Both are well worth looking for the full version.
I’ve never read the uncut Puppet Masters - I’ll have to do that. The uncut Stranger adds some additional description in a couple of scenes that influence how those scenes work (I’m thinking in particular of the scene when Ben flees from the compound that Michael and Jill (and the rest) are living in).