# Question about Islamic custom **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594 "2008-06-20T15:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/1 "2008-06-20T15:09:47Z")
Yesterday as I was driving, while stopped at an intersection I saw a pair of young people. One was a totally unexceptional young man. The other was an incredibly beautiful young woman, dressed in dark skin-tight bell-bottoms and a white skin-tight shirt (I think it was long sleeved) and a white and black head-scarf. The kind where there is a close-fitting under-layer at the skull in white, then a scarf much more loosely tied around it. This girl was built like a man’s wet dream. Hell, I’m a woman and I couldn’t keep my eyes off of her! But my immediate thought was the question - isn’t the head scarf there to prevent men from being distracted by the beauty of women’s hair? And if so, isn’t showing her body as she way violating the spirit if not the letter of the law that requires her to wear a head-scarf? Does anyone know enough of Islamic law to tell me? I know of course there are variations, and that also, of course, people often follow the letter without the spirit. But I was just curious. Boy, she sure was a demonstration that a head-scarf can look great! On the other hand, chances are she would have looked great in a burlap sack. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/2 "2008-06-20T15:28:56Z")
In some more progressive Islamic cultures the head scarf is considered a veil. The opposite side of the spectrum is the brka where yhe woman is covered from head to toe with only a slit for the eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/3 "2008-06-20T16:00:39Z")
[QUOTE=Enola Straight] In some more progressive Islamic cultures the head scarf is considered a veil. The opposite side of the spectrum is the brka where yhe woman is covered from head to toe with only a slit for the eyes. [/QUOTE] Yes, there’s quite a bit of variation. Some Muslim women don’t even bother with head scarves. Muslims are people, not robots! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/4 "2008-06-20T16:12:10Z")
In today’s Arab News was a photo of one of the UAEian Royals at Ascot. The men in top hats and Abe Lincoln beards, the king’s wife in a modern, bright yellow dress. Lots of variation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/5 "2008-06-20T16:36:36Z")
[QUOTE=Paul in Saudi] In today’s Arab News was a photo of one of the UAEian Royals at Ascot. The men in top hats and Abe Lincoln beards, the king’s wife in a modern, bright yellow dress. Lots of variation. [/QUOTE] You really _have_ to wear a topper at Ascot. Even the Saudi royals do when they go. ---
**Author:** ![RunSilent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e0b2c6/32.png) [@RunSilent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RunSilent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/6 "2008-06-20T16:38:59Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] Yesterday as I was driving, while stopped at an intersection I saw a pair of young people. One was a totally unexceptional young man. The other was an incredibly beautiful young woman, dressed in dark skin-tight bell-bottoms and a white skin-tight shirt (I think it was long sleeved) and a white and black head-scarf. The kind where there is a close-fitting under-layer at the skull in white, then a scarf much more loosely tied around it. This girl was built like a man’s wet dream. Hell, I’m a woman and I couldn’t keep my eyes off of her! But my immediate thought was the question - isn’t the head scarf there to prevent men from being distracted by the beauty of women’s hair? And if so, isn’t showing her body as she way violating the spirit if not the letter of the law that requires her to wear a head-scarf? Does anyone know enough of Islamic law to tell me? I know of course there are variations, and that also, of course, people often follow the letter without the spirit. But I was just curious. Boy, she sure was a demonstration that a head-scarf can look great! On the other hand, chances are she would have looked great in a burlap sack. [/QUOTE] How do you know she was muslim? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/7 "2008-06-20T16:42:33Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Yes, there’s quite a bit of variation. Some Muslim women don’t even bother with head scarves. Muslims are people, not robots! [/QUOTE] Unless they live in Islamic countries where they are required to wear such garments. To illustrate that point, in Saudi Arabia the religious police let school girls die in a fire because they didn’t have the proper head dress to leave a burning building. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/8 "2008-06-20T16:52:27Z")
[QUOTE=RunSilent] How do you know she was muslim? [/QUOTE] If it had just been the loose headscarf, I would not have thought so. But underneath was a closefitting thing almost like a white skullcap, at least in front. It’s possible she’s not muslim, of course. But I’ve never seen that kind of headwear on any woman except a nun or a muslim, and this girl was DEFINITELY NOT a nun! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/9 "2008-06-20T16:58:48Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] Yes, there’s quite a bit of variation. Some Muslim women don’t even bother with head scarves. Muslims are people, not robots! [/QUOTE] I’ve attended conferences at which several female Malaysians were participants. Among the Muslim women, they ran the gamut, full Muslim dress to Western wear, and they all got along together. In Malaysia at least, it’s personal choice, except maybe in the stricter northeastern-peninsula states like Kelantan and Terengganu. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/10 "2008-06-20T17:00:56Z")
I work with a large number of Muslim women, roughly half of which wear head scarves. I’ve never asked them about it specifically, but I’ve noticed that almost all of both groups are real clothes horses - designer clothes, dozens of pairs of shoes, etc. The only significant difference between their outfits is that the ones wearing the scarves always wear long sleeves. My _assumption_ (again, haven’t asked) is that the only requirement is that the head and arms be covered, not that the clothing not show off their beauty. These are modern women living in the U.S. and working in the tech sector, mind you. Those scarves are gorgeous, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/11 "2008-06-20T17:22:41Z")
I have noticed among Christian women on the street, that some keep their breasts covered completely at all times, some show some cleavage, and others seem to only cover their nipples. I wonder what the Christian law is regarding this… ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/12 "2008-06-20T18:11:44Z")
[QUOTE=DrFidelius] I have noticed among Christian women on the street, that some keep their breasts covered completely at all times, some show some cleavage, and others seem to only cover their nipples. I wonder what the Christian law is regarding this… [/QUOTE] I don’t know, why don’t you go down to a beach and ask both groups. Start with the butt-floss crowd and work your way up. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/13 "2008-06-20T19:17:12Z")
Wearing the hijab is as much cultural as it is religious. And different cultures have different ideas of what is inappropriate dress, which may not make sense to people of a different culture. For example, where I lived in Cameroon Muslim women would regularly go outside wearing a headscarf but no shirt. In their culture, this made total sense. To me, it seemed wacky. Another thing is that going out without your hijab is pretty cut and dry- if she gets in trouble with her family, it’s hard to argue with. But if she was just wearing something a bit too sexy, that is a bit more ambiguous and she’s got a lot more room to work with. Each culture has its own boundries that can be pushed without going over the edge. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/14 "2008-06-20T19:35:29Z")
My favorite cartoon on the subject ( posted before ) : [Syrian\_Hijab.jpg (image)](http://bp2.blogger.com/_5sbGWuqTOog/Rl_8rTMwVmI/AAAAAAAACe0/SLEqWGthN2Y/s1600-h/Syrian_Hijab.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/15 "2008-06-20T20:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Unless they live in Islamic countries where they are required to wear such garments. To illustrate that point, in Saudi Arabia the religious police let school girls die in a fire because they didn’t have the proper head dress to leave a burning building. [/QUOTE] That was a horrible tragedy. However, the [reaction](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm) was quite strong–even in Saudi Arabia. > [@](#): > > The Saudi Gazette quoted witnesses as saying that the police - known as the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice - had stopped men who tried to help the girls and warned “it is a sinful to approach them”. > > The father of one of the dead girls said that the school watchman even refused to open the gates to let the girls out. > > “Lives could have been saved had they not been stopped by members of the Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice,” the newspaper concluded. As I said “not robots.” And there are few Islamic countries as conservative as Saudi Arabia. (The fire happened in Mecca.) Afghanistan, perhaps. But few Afghani girls probably attend school. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/16 "2008-06-20T20:12:08Z")
IANAOrthodox Jew, but I used to work for an orthodox kosher organization. The wife of one of the rabbis was knock-dead gorgeous, but always covered her hair with a scarf. I was told that her hair was only for her husband, and it would be improper to tempt anyone else. Then one day she came in with long black hair, uncovered. Had she converted to Reformed? No, it was a wig. So it’s OK to see hair that looks exactly like hair, but not the real hair, even though both may look the same. Such is religion. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/17 "2008-06-20T20:30:28Z")
I had a Muslim student who kept Ramadan faithfully but was captain of the drill team–which means dressing in very little and taking part in some pretty racy dance routines. I have another Muslim student who also keeps Ramadan, isn’t allowed to see boys outside of school (at all. Not even in mixed groups, not even with parental supervision) but who is captain of the cheerleading team. Neither of those girls covered their hair, but they were Bosnian and Macedonian/Albanian, not African or Middle Eastern. I’ve had Muslim students who only covered their heads during Ramadan, and a few I suspected only covered their hair three minutes before they walked in the door at home (i.e., they wore a scarf around their shoulders all day). There are a million different kinds of Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/18 "2008-06-20T20:32:37Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] That was a horrible tragedy. However, the [reaction](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm) was quite strong–even in Saudi Arabia. [/QUOTE] How strong exactly was the reaction? The BBC doesn’t say what happened to those religious police. Were they fired and lashed? Demoted? Given a stern lecture? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/19 "2008-06-20T21:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] How strong exactly was the reaction? The BBC doesn’t say what happened to those religious police. Were they fired and lashed? Demoted? Given a stern lecture? [/QUOTE] Promoted, probably. The parents have filed a civil suit against the school, and presumably the _mutaween_ too. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/20 "2008-06-21T00:26:14Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Promoted, probably. The parents have filed a civil suit against the school, and presumably the _mutaween_ too. [/QUOTE] Even in a fairly progressive society like Thailand, such a suit would take at least a decade to make it through the courts, and that’s on the fast track. I can’t imagine how long it will take in Saudi Arabia, but I bet I can guess the outcome. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594.md?page=2)