# Question about Islamic custom **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 20, 2008, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594 "2008-06-20T15:09:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/21 "2008-06-21T01:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] The parents have filed a civil suit against the school, and presumably the _mutaween_ too. [/QUOTE] Suit, hell. I think if I was one of the fathers, I’d be tempted to take some direct action against the “Commission for Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice” and its officers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/22 "2008-06-21T07:55:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] As I said “not robots.” And there are few Islamic countries as conservative as Saudi Arabia. (The fire happened in Mecca.) Afghanistan, perhaps. But few Afghani girls probably attend school. [/QUOTE] I’m thinking Iran off the top of my head. The religious police make the news from time to time. Don’t hear news from other countries with religious based governments so its hard to say. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/23 "2008-06-21T09:14:00Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] I’m thinking Iran off the top of my head. The religious police make the news from time to time. [/QUOTE] Nope. Iran is incredibly more liberal than Saudi Arabia. It seems people have a very caricatural view of Iran, assuming it’s way more repressive re the rights of women than it is in reality. As the previous poster said, I don’t think there’s a worse country than Saudi Arabia from this point of view since the fall of the Talibans in Afghanistan. They’re enforcing the most retrograde and fundamentalist version of Islam existing on the face of this planet. Iranians are women rights activists by comparison. Famously, Saudi women aren’t even allowed to drive. An Iranian woman can perfectly drive her car wearing fashion clothes when she goes at the university to teach genetics (taking this example because it was the job of the last Iranian woman I chatted with online), providing she’s covering her hair with a scarf. To give an extreme example that will probably surprise a lot of people, sex change surgery is legal in Iran. [QUOTE=Magiver] Don’t hear news from other countries with religious based governments so its hard to say. [/QUOTE] Nigeria (where several muslim states apply a strict version of the Sharia) makes the news on a regular basis. Don’t you remember the raped women sentenced to death for adultery? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/24 "2008-06-21T09:51:07Z")
Based on your first paragraph, I thought the question was going to be: “Is it the custom for really hot chicks to go out with very plain men?” ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/25 "2008-06-21T10:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=Bridget Burke] As I said “not robots.” And there are few Islamic countries as conservative as Saudi Arabia. (The fire happened in Mecca.) Afghanistan, perhaps. But few Afghani girls probably attend school. [/QUOTE] Nitpick: A citizen of Afghanistan is an Afghan. The Afghani is the unit of currency in the country. Many people think since Pakistan has Pakistanis, then Afghanistan must have Afghanis, but no, (except the people maybe have some Afghanis in their wallet). They’re Afghans. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/26 "2008-06-21T11:12:58Z")
Did you get her phone number? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/27 "2008-06-21T12:32:12Z")
Thank you for a great link, **Tamerlane!** ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/28 "2008-06-21T17:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] An Iranian woman can perfectly drive her car wearing fashion clothes when she goes at the university to teach genetics (taking this example because it was the job of the last Iranian woman I chatted with online), providing she’s covering her hair with a scarf. [/QUOTE] Note in my link the “Hijab and fringe”, which underneath it says “Irani tourist”? That seems pretty typical of Iran - I saw some documentary on Iranian youth and while all the young women had hair scarves, they all seemed to wear them pushed back on the head to show a fringe of hair in the front. Contrast that with the “ninja” :D. Iran isn’t the U.S. by a long shot, but I agree it’s a million miles from SA, culturally. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/29 "2008-06-21T17:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=clairobscur] Iran is incredibly more liberal than Saudi Arabia. It seems people have a very caricatural view of Iran, assuming it’s way more repressive re the rights of women than it is in reality. [/QUOTE] I find this odd too. There are plenty of Iranian immigrants in Europe and North America, and although a lot of them left before or during the Shah’s overthrow, even the ones who left more recently are very “normal” people. I suppose lots of Americans and Europeans know Irani folk but don’t know them as such. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/30 "2008-06-21T19:02:18Z")
Based on my experience in Muslim countries (not particularly widespread it has to be said) what OP describes is the rule not the exception. Both in Turkey and Morocco its more common for young women to wear completely western clothing, make-up, etc., with the exception of the head scarf. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/31 "2008-06-21T19:26:29Z")
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] I find this odd too. There are plenty of Iranian immigrants in Europe and North America, and although a lot of them left before or during the Shah’s overthrow, even the ones who left more recently are very “normal” people. I suppose lots of Americans and Europeans know Irani… [/QUOTE] Nitpick; the demonym is “Iranian.” A citizen of Iran is an Iranian, and things from Iran are Iranian. However, they (usually) speak Persian. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/32 "2008-06-21T19:43:12Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Nitpick; the demonym is “Iranian.” A citizen of Iran is an Iranian, and things from Iran are Iranian. However, they (usually) speak Persian. [/QUOTE] If anyone wants to read a series of increasing arrogant and antagonistic comments about whether the language spoken in Iran is Iranian or Farsi, [look here.](http://www.aqoul.com/archives/2005/12/on_syriana_cros.php) This is an argument I won’t touch with a ten-foot pole. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/33 "2008-06-21T21:33:43Z")
Whoops, make that _Farsi_ or _Persian_. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/34 "2008-06-22T01:14:19Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] Whoops, make that _Farsi_ or _Persian_. [/QUOTE] Doesn’t the word Persian derive from the word Farsi? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/35 "2008-06-22T01:25:08Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Nitpick; the demonym is “Iranian.” A citizen of Iran is an Iranian, and things from Iran are Iranian. However, they (usually) speak Persian. [/QUOTE] So it is. I’d always used “Irani” and “Iranian” as synonyms. ---
**Author:** ![Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df705f/32.png) [@Full\_Metal\_Lotus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Full_Metal_Lotus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/36 "2008-06-22T01:48:27Z")
This is a related point as it relates to the moderization of religious wear, although in this case it was Mennonite, not Muslim. I had the opportunity, and great pleasure to be invited into a Mennonite household for an informal Sunday dinner. There were several generations of Mennonite woman present. The grandmother wore the black outfit with a full head scarf. As she was a respected elder in her community, she had embroidered a rose on to the side of her headscarf. Her daughter wore a black dress, of a modest cut, and a slightly smaller head scarf, also black, and unadorned. In general her outfit was not as “severe” or utilitarian as the great grandmother’s. Her daughter wore a store bought print dress, again of a modest design, but with a smaller light blue head scarf. Her (teen age) daughter wore T-shirt and jeans, and had what was more a largish blue ribbon in her hair. It was interesting to see the modernisation and culturization of the clothing as it “passed” through the 4 generations. They all seemed to happily accept each other and, I might add, the food was delicious! Many people of Muslim background have (here in Canada) aclimatized to the local fashions as time/generations have progressed. Regards FML ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/37 "2008-06-22T01:53:15Z")
I had a Moslem schoolteacher in the late '80s who indicated that for her the headscarf was simply an “identifier” or “show of solidarity” and that it wasn’t actually an attempt at modesty. Nice lady, but she eventually got harassed for her religion by various students to the point that she quit mid-year. The harassment wasn’t terribly aggressive, so in retrospect I suspect she was not tough enough to teach in a public middle school. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/38 "2008-06-22T06:07:03Z")
[QUOTE=Enola Straight] . The opposite side of the spectrum is the brka where yhe woman is covered from head to toe with only a slit for the eyes. [/QUOTE] It also has been popular on occasion with male Islamist terrorists in the U.K.when running away from the police in an attempt to disguise their features and deter male police from stopping and searching them for fear of offending the Race Relations board. Around that time a female Muslim schoolteacher who had attended her job interview unveiled and worked for several weeks unveiled suddenly decided that she absaloutly must wear the veil at work due to her new found religious fervour and was laid off because none of the kids could understand what the hell she was saying mumbling behind her Burka. She immediatly took the school to court for religious discrimination(I mean its only fair that she should receive some sort of remuniration for the agonising heartache she must have suffered after being at her job for so long )and I believe she received a small cash settlement though I might be wrong on that score. I must hasten to add that though Special Branch were tracking a number of Islamic terrorist logistics support people through London at this time and all were funnily enough wearing Burkas the two incidents were entirely coincidental and were in no way staged to make police hesitant about stopping and searching Burka wearers or for that matter to make British born Muslims feel the subject of religious persecution because of their strongly held convictions about their dress code. And I’ll fight any man in the pub who says otherwise,and while we’re on the subject if anyone tries to tell me that she has been seen since all the fuss has died down walking about in public,how can I put it BARE FACED,I m sorry but I just wont believe you. I applaud her for her honesty,her integrity and her devoutness. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/39 "2008-06-22T17:31:12Z")
Well, that made sense. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594/40 "2008-06-22T21:38:12Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] IANAOrthodox Jew, but I used to work for an orthodox kosher organization. The wife of one of the rabbis was knock-dead gorgeous, but always covered her hair with a scarf. I was told that her hair was only for her husband, and it would be improper to tempt anyone else. Then one day she came in with long black hair, uncovered. Had she converted to Reformed? [/QUOTE] Nitpick - it’s “Reform Judaism,” not “Reformed Judaism.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-islamic-custom/453594.md?page=1)