# Question about Kyomara and his/her banning **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 15, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470 "2002-03-15T14:57:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Beastal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Beastal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beastal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/81 "2002-03-16T15:10:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hawthorne \* > \*\*_If_ **Kyomara** did not see the warning, s/he is in the same position as all the others in that thread who posted inappropriately, but none of them were banned. \*\* Here, here. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/82 "2002-03-16T15:20:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shayna \* > The administrators chose to believe that that’s what he did, **in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary**. Guilty until proven innocent or sufficient begging, grovelling and apologzing graces their inboxes. the post in question was, without doubt, \* after\* **manny’s** post. I absolutely agree that it is quite possible that the poster in question might not have seen **manny’s** post before hitting submit. But that hardly brings it up to the level of "overwhelming evidence’ . The only evidence that is seeable is the time stamp on the posts, which make it clear that one came several minutes before the other. Anything else is supposition, etc. Therefore, the burden **is** back on the poster to assure the admins that it was a simulpost (which I believe it was). Could they have sent off an email suggesting that was a simulpost? sure. Could they have posted a specific ‘hey, you, this better have been a simulpost’, sure. But of course, if they’d done that, I guarentee w/this crowd absolutely every single damn time they issue a warning, somebody’d come right in afterwards w/another Tonya Harding shot. For the record: I think it is **likely** that the poster in question hadn’t seen the mod warning. He still needs to clear up that grey area w/the admins (as indicated by the admins), he apparently has yet to do this. I think it was a ‘grey area’ thread for GQ to begin with, and have seen in the past such things blow up. And, on some subjects (gun control, politics, abortion etc.), while there may be a legitimate GQ in there, often the mods have had to come in w/heavy boots to keep the distinctions between the forums clear. and all of the ‘I post lots in this arena, therefore I know the rules’ or ‘I read alot in this forum’ or ‘I’ve been here longer’ etc etc, well, hell, there just ain’t enough advil in the world to get me to wade into that shit. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/83 "2002-03-16T15:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\* > A few newbies like TXLonghorn really do get screwed because 90% of their posts have disappeared,_\* Ahem… TXLonghorn Registered: Dec 2000 Posts: 255 vs. Squink Registered: Oct 2000 Posts: 901 I’ve been here for two months less than you. I guess that does make me a “newbie.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/84 "2002-03-16T15:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cagiva650 \* > \*\* > > I think the OP was in the wrong place to begin, _Did GB really wave at Stevie_ should of been in **MPSIMS** I think. A question like that is sure to bring out political answers. In fact it screams for sarcastic replies. \*\* I strongly disagree with this part. ANY question that can be answered “Yes”, “No” or “Here are the facts, you can make up your mind” should be allowed in GQ. The question fits. The fact that some assholes lack the self control not to spew their political gibberish in _every_ possible location doesn’t change that. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\* Yeah, but that’s not what I said. I said that anyone who made a political remark would be banned. > > So he is. What would you have us do after a promise as direct as that? > > We are, of course, open to the possibility that it took seven minutes to compose the post in question, or that the hamsters took seven minutes to put it through. If that’s the case, he can be reinstated every bit as quickly as he was banned. But he’s going to have to do the legwork and send an email. \*\* This seems overly harsh to me, only because of the seven minute turn around. If it’d been, say a couple of hours, I wouldn’t be saying anything, but as someone notorious for starting a reply, walking away from my computer to dig up a reference, get a sammich, go to the john, etc, come back up to an hour later, finish the post and submit without preview (if there’s little or no coding, why bother?) a seven minute turn-around seems like a very short notice. Can/does anything in the board software tell when the reply button was first hit on a reply, or only when the reply was submitted? If there’s a way to tell that he hit “reply” _after_ **Manny’s** warning was posted… And I’m all in favor of the political hijack being a warnable/ ore even better, instantly-bannable offense in GQ, and I’d _love_ to see it in place for EVERY thread: Hell, post it as a sticky at the top of the forum! While I’m mostly a GQ reader, I can’t tell you how _sick and tired_ I am of seeing an interesting question: “Which president ate the most banannas while in the White House?” only to have some lackwit derail the topic with a political hijack: “Quayle couldn’t even _spell_ banannas! Bwah-ha-ha!” or “Clinton, so that he could use 'em on Monica when he ran out of cigars, the perv! Heh-heh!” C’mon. Those sorts of cracks (in GQ!) are trolling. And annoying as hell to read. BUT! That rule has, to the best of my knowledge, NOT been enforced rigerously before, only the most egregious violators had been banned as a result. And no notice substantial notice before a rule this…strong goes into effect seems harsh. Granted, **Kyomara** can just apologize, but **IF** it was just a simulpost, his rep has been…not smeared, perhaps…reduced as a result of an honest mistake. Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/85 "2002-03-16T15:55:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _wring posted: > and all of the ‘I post lots in this arena, therefore I know the rules’ or ‘I read alot in this forum’ or ‘I’ve been here longer’ etc etc, well, hell, there just ain’t enough advil in the world to get me to wade into that shit._ I’m done with it myself. It’s not pleasant pointing out information that people will go to ridiculous lengths to **not** comprehend because they feel it might upset their delicate sensibilities. Apparently all this vaunted sense of fairness and “benefit of the doubt” is reserved for those who either agree with ones prejudices, or happen to get themselves banned. When it gets tossed aside so easily like that, it’s not worth much in the first place.:rolleyes: These banning threads are never among the proudest moments of the board. I just hope that Kyomara has the sense to apologize, and render this whole sordid hand-wringing exercise obsolete. While the banning was justified, s/he certainly deserves a break. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/86 "2002-03-16T15:58:09Z")
I think the lesson to be learned here is that there’s sometimes a fine distinction between statements of fact and statements of opinion–especially when it comes to politics. A question for everyone: I agree with an earlier post which said that it’s interesting and informative in a GQ thread like that one to explore a) the provenance of such a story, and b) why certain president might be more susceptible to these kinds of tales than others (especially in contrast to the “Clinton death count” stuff). I think that any attempt to explore factual questions in a broader contextual light like that will inevitably tinge on subjective _application_ of opinion to fact. So are any questions for which there’s not a single, empirically discoverable “right answer” inappropriate for GQ? Rather, are any responses not purporting to contain a single, discoverable answer inappropriate? Because I think that’d do away with a lot of the charm and utility of GQ itself, given the nature of the people who frequent this board–I mean, Lord knows Cecil Adams always gives the facts and nothing but, right? ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/87 "2002-03-16T16:08:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > **While I’m mostly a GQ reader, I can’t tell you how _sick and tired_ I am of seeing an interesting question: “Which president ate the most banannas while in the White House?” only to have some lackwit derail the topic with a political hijack: "Quayle couldn’t even _spell_ banannas! Bwah-ha-ha!"** And **Fenris** can’t even **spell** _[bananas](http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=banana)_! Bwah-ha-ha! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/88 "2002-03-16T16:19:07Z")
Um…since we have to throw out our GQ post counts now before answering…I have 130 over 6 months. One thing that apparently everyone has missed - when you Search, you are not counting **posts** in GQ - you are counting **threads** that you have posted to. So the whole concept of “Posts in GQ” is stupid to begin with, because _you’re not even reading the Search results properly_. My actual posts are quite a bit higher, as are many people’s. I’ve composed 6 responses to this thread, and deleted each one. This is the seventh. My first comment, before I become even more a squirrel, is that threads like this have no positive effect at all. I can remember no staff decision changing as a result of a thread like this, no matter how it may be perceived as being arbitrary and questionable. And because we see only the tip of the Admin Iceberg, so to speak, we don’t know everything that has gone on. For all we know, **Kyomara** sent a mail in saying “Fuck you losers!” Or not. We don’t know. Second - I think it is pretty clear that Kyomara should not have been banned to begin with. The benefit of the doubt says that he just missed **manhattan’s** warning. I did a Search on **Kyomara** ’s past posts, and found no evidence whatsoever of him being a troublemaker, rabble rouser, or someone to obey a direct warning from a Moderator. At all. Plus, yesterday, it took me 28 minutes to respond to one post, because I tried to open the “Reply” window, went away, came back, typed my reply, hit enter, waited about 4 minutes, then saw my post, 28 minutes after I had started the process, and 2 others had already answered the question. Third - now that he is banned, I do think that he does need to mail the authorities to clear up the mistake, politely and without anger or pouting. I do not think any apology or groveling is needed, or should be expected, if it was truly a mistake. Fourth - it’s pretty clear that political posts continued in that thread, to a minor extent, after the warning, from others. That they were not banned as well is very troubling. As to a staff Member also making a blatantly political statement in that thread too…well, hell, what can you say? It was another mistake obviously. Fifth - both sides made a mistake, and both sides should own up to it without hesitation or reservation, and move on, reputations undiminished and untarnished. It’s just one of those things that happens, and no one on any side needs to get defensive or hostile about it. Sixth, in closing - I think the warning by **manhattan** was not only proper, it was needed and justified. In fact, I applaud my good friend **manhattan** for doing exactly what he did. I just think that **Kyomara** was caught in the crossfire, and needs another chance. It is very possible that Kyomara came back to the thread, saw that he was banned, felt badly about it and ashamed, and just left. Without a trace. I would have mailed him to urge that he go ahead and try to mend the bridge with the Staff, but alas, his e-mail is hidden. Therefore, I humbly and respectfully beg the Staff, especially **manhattan** , to reconsider and to give **Kyomara** a second chance, unless he has been a jerk behind the scenes, or acted in an improper way otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/89 "2002-03-16T16:34:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Therefore, the burden is back on the poster to assure the admins that it was a simulpost (which I believe it was). The burden. Indeed it has become somewhat burdensome to participate here. Something is seriously wrong when nothing will rescue Kyomara’s participation short of his own supplication. That a moderator must never reverse himself lest his authority erode is bullshit. This episode, along with MEBuckner’s unreasonable censure of me for someone else’s hijack, has done more to erode my confidence in SDMB moderation than anything else. The approach seems to be in these steps: (1) a mod has cold-cocked and acted capriciously; (2) the other mods assist in forming a rationalization and justification of the action (maybe in their private forum, maybe spontaneously); and then (3) their united front is presented to us. There is a clique after all. It’s the mods. ---
**Author:** ![ScoobyTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@ScoobyTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScoobyTX)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/90 "2002-03-16T16:48:15Z")
**Lib** , you act as if the owners of this space do not have the right to set the rules, to enforce the rules or to delegate that authority to others. I know your panties are in a wad over that other incident, but all this has “erode[d] [your] confidence in SDMB moderation?” What are you gonna do? Vote them out? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/91 "2002-03-16T16:54:46Z")
I’d like to offer my two cents, just because I can. I don’t think **Kyomara** should have been banned. On the other hand … what are you going to do? That whole thread was political from the get-go. Oh, it was pretty opaque, but it was there. The title might as well have been, “Did That Idiot Bush Really Wave At Stevie Wonder”, or maybe “How Can People Accuse Our Illustrious and Heroic Leader of Being This Stupid.” Either way, the political carpet was laid. And **K** ’s response, while political, didn’t exactly push his politcal stance. Yes, he gave a negative opinion of Bush, but he then went on to say, “When you’re used to everyone around you being sighted, it’s an easy mistake to make.” Ok, there was a little more – regarding blowing us all up, but I digress. Analogy time: Q: Is there any type of condiment made out of corn? A: Personally I find corn to be the most disgusting food stuff on the planet, but I’ve seen corn and black bean salsa. Bannable response? Let’s get a little closer: Q:Did Clinton fuck a girl scout in the Oval Office? A: I’ll be the first one to accuse Clinton of being an immoral degenerate, but that is pure hogwash. It never happened. Bannable? On the other hand, bannable offenses or not, … THIS IS JUST A FUCKING MEASSAGE BAORD!!! Jesus Harold Christ, are we going to make **Kyomara** the next Rosa Parks? I’ll tell you, the day I get banned for something so little, is the day I never post here again. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/92 "2002-03-16T17:01:13Z")
Christ. where do I start? Squink, the number of posts a person has in GQ means nowt, compared to what they say and how they say it. Want to assertain my authority to comment based on how long I have been here and how often I post in GQ? If so, I have a finger held up and I want you to guess which one it is. [/quote] I just hope that Kyomara has the sense to apologize, and render this whole sordid hand-wringing exercise obsolete. While the banning was justified, s/he certainly deserves a break. [/quote] APOLOGISE FOR WHAT??? not previewing? the Server being slow? Al Capone’s vault being empty? Help me out here. you appear to be the only person here who actuallty thinks kyomara was being a jerk. You cant be a jerk if you don’t know what you are doing is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pezpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@pezpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pezpunk)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/93 "2002-03-16T17:46:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TwistofFate \* > /quote]I just hope that Kyomara has the sense to apologize, and render this whole sordid hand-wringing exercise obsolete. While the banning was justified, s/he certainly deserves a break./quote] Well someone obviously has not been on the boards long enough to learn correct coding! I for one have disguarded your argument completely twisty! and furthermore… > [@](#): > > I’ll tell you, the day I get banned for something so little, is the day I never post here again. This is hilarious!!! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/94 "2002-03-16T17:46:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Lib, you act as if the owners of this space do not have the right to set the rules, to enforce the rules or to delegate that authority to others. I’m not talking about what they have a right to do. I’m talking about what they’ve _chosen_ to do. They can restrict the board to red-headed Mongolians and roll dice to ban two a day, for all I care. Just stop the pretension that mods can’t make mistakes, or that victims of their mistakes owe them apologies. > [@](#): > > I know your panties are in a wad over that other incident, but all this has “erode[d] [your] confidence in SDMB moderation?” What are you gonna do? Vote them out? I’ve already done what I’m going to do. If you don’t like it, kiss my ass. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/95 "2002-03-16T17:51:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\* > I’ll tell you, the day I get banned for something so little, is the day I never post here again. \*\* The beauty of this sentence is sublime. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/96 "2002-03-16T17:58:48Z")
Wrote **Lib:** > [@](#): > > The approach seems to be in these steps: (1) a mod has cold-cocked and acted capriciously; (2) the other mods assist in forming a rationalization and justification of the action (maybe in their private forum, maybe spontaneously); and then (3) their united front is presented to us. > > There is a clique after all. It’s the mods. I don’t get this at all, **Lib.** You’ve always been openly supportive of **Tuba.** She’s in charge of the moderators, and it was she who banned the poster in question. Are you implying that she’s lost control of the board to the “mod clique”? Just wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/97 "2002-03-16T18:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > You’ve always been openly supportive of Tuba. She’s in charge of the moderators, and it was she who banned the poster in question. Are you implying that she’s lost control of the board to the “mod clique”? Damn right I support Tuba. I forbid anyone to say anything disparaging about her. It is not her fault that circumstances have put her into this unfortunate position. She merely followed procedure. She trusts the mods to report and assess accurately. The culpable mod should apologize to her, in my opinion, admit his mistake, and request that Kyomara be reinstated. The mod should also apologize to Kyomara. > [@](#): > > I for one have disguarded your argument completely twisty! Oh, no! _Now_ who will protect it? ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/98 "2002-03-16T18:20:50Z")
But, **Lib,** Tuba read that thread. She posted in that thread. She banned the poster in that thread. She saw what was going on in that thread. She didn’t need a report or assesment. In the world I live in, the boss is ultimately responsible for his or her subordinates. If you feel an injustice has been done, you can’t just hang it on the mod clique. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/99 "2002-03-16T18:27:42Z")
**TwistofFate** , somebody needs to apologize for Al Capone’s vaults being empty - I wasted some valuable time watching that show. **Squink** , I still think that you are a newbie. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2002, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470/100 "2002-03-16T18:36:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slip Mahoney \* > \*\*But, **Lib,** Tuba read that thread. She posted in that thread. She banned the poster in that thread. She saw what was going on in that thread. She didn’t need a report or assesment. > > In the world I live in, the boss is ultimately responsible for his or her subordinates. > > If you feel an injustice has been done, you can’t just hang it on the mod clique. \*\* She could be dealing with it right now, for all we know. I trust her completely and without reservation. If she comes in here and says she stands by what she did, then I will assume that she knows something important that we don’t know. On the other hand, she is not above making a mistake, and if she has made one here, I trust her to own up to it and rectify it. Either way, I accept her final judgment as fair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-kyomara-and-his-her-banning/98470.md?page=6)