# Question about midichlorians and Vader
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [June 30, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527 "2005-06-30T15:17:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/1 "2005-06-30T15:17:36Z")
I was watching ROTJ this morning and I started thinking about something that Obi Wan tells Luke. When Luke says that he knows there is still good in his father and he plans on turning him back to the light side Obi Wan says that Vader is more machine than man. If that is the case shouldn’t Vader have lost most of his connection to the force? The only way I can think that he would still maintain a strong connection would be for the midichlorians to be concentrated in an area that wasn’t replaced, like the brain or heart. What do you guys think?
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### Author:  [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/One_And_Only_Wanderers)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/2 "2005-06-30T15:25:42Z")
i think the standard reply concerning Lucas [del]pulling the midichlorians idea out of his ass[/del] not having his creative impulses mesh fits here.
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### Author:  [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/3 "2005-06-30T15:29:29Z")
Of course, if you suspend disbelief long enough to accept both “more machine now than man” and midichlorians, you’d have to figure that Anakin was absolutely stuffed to the gills with them such that losing most of his body only just puts him on the same level as most Jedi Masters. Given that it’s hinted Anakin was an artificial birth (in that a Sith caused him to be born, rather than through natural procreation), this isn’t an implausible situation.
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### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/4 "2005-06-30T15:38:17Z")
I am not sure what percentage of Vader’s body was destroyed but it seemed to be quite a bit. To me, it didn’t seem as though he lost any of his power before and after the repairs. You would think if he lost 50% of his power that it would show a little bit.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/5 "2005-06-30T15:39:41Z")
There are no midichlorians!
It’s just a made-up plot device.
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### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/6 "2005-06-30T15:41:59Z")
> [@One And Only Wanderers](#):
>
> i think the standard reply concerning Lucas [del]pulling the midichlorians idea out of his ass[/del] not having his creative impulses mesh fits here.
I agree that he didn’t think it all the way through, but since it is already done I was wondering how people could explain it away (if they could).
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### Author:  [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/7 "2005-06-30T15:43:28Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#):
>
> I am not sure what percentage of Vader’s body was destroyed but it seemed to be quite a bit. To me, it didn’t seem as though he lost any of his power before and after the repairs. You would think if he lost 50% of his power that it would show a little bit.
Well, he did seem to loose a good bit of his powers. When’s the last time you’ve seen Vader somersaulting through the air in a lightsaber fight? Indeed, he seems to have trouble just moving around quickly. Granted, he gained the power of James Earl Jones’ voice, so that evens it out.
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### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/8 "2005-06-30T15:44:22Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> There are no midichlorians!
>
> It’s just a made-up plot device.
I understand that. This plot device makes no sense though. I was wondering if there was an official answer to this (such as midichlorians being concentrated in certain areas or Vader just having so many that losing 50% didn’t matter).
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### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/9 "2005-06-30T15:46:43Z")
> [@Raguleader](#):
>
> Well, he did seem to loose a good bit of his powers. When’s the last time you’ve seen Vader somersaulting through the air in a lightsaber fight? Indeed, he seems to have trouble just moving around quickly. Granted, he gained the power of James Earl Jones’ voice, so that evens it out.
True… I figured it had more to do with the suit though. He was definitely more agile before he was turned into a human can opener.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/10 "2005-06-30T15:46:44Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#):
>
> I understand that. This plot device makes no sense though. I was wondering if there was an official answer to this (such as midichlorians being concentrated in certain areas or Vader just having so many that losing 50% didn’t matter).
Ok, were the midichlorians in the blood? I guess that’s what I kind of assumed.
And we have no way of knowing if the midicholrians are self-propogating, that is, create more of themselves. Pehaps it’s like a particular type of virus.
And maybe Anakin just has more ability to generate them?
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### Author:  [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/11 "2005-06-30T15:49:37Z")
> [@drgnrdr07](#):
>
> I understand that. This plot device makes no sense though. I was wondering if there was an official answer to this (such as midichlorians being concentrated in certain areas or Vader just having so many that losing 50% didn’t matter).
I always took the Midichlorians to be a case of corelation rather than causation. You are strong in the Force. You have lots of Midichlorians. But the Midichlorians don’t CAUSE you to be strong in the force. Kinda like how Han Solo is a smuggler. Han Solo flies an asymetrical flying saucer-esque space ship. But flying asymetrical flying saucer-esque space ships don’t MAKE you a smuggler.
Also, I always thought it was funny how “Midichlorian” sounds kinda like “Mitochrondria” which is the name for a bunch of little thingies in your cells that basically act as power stations, helping provide the energy for the cell’s various functions to be carried out.
And one last reflection on Midichlorians, as mentioned by one of my friends after watching Episode III:
Midichlorians are very flammable!
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### Author:  [@drgnrdr07](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drgnrdr07)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/12 "2005-06-30T15:57:28Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> Ok, were the midichlorians in the blood? I guess that’s what I kind of assumed.
>
> And we have no way of knowing if the midicholrians are self-propogating, that is, create more of themselves. Pehaps it’s like a particular type of virus.
>
> And maybe Anakin just has more ability to generate them?
Hmmmm… could be. I had always assumed that they were in all cells and not just certain ones. Unfortunate that there isn’t much official info on 'em.
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### Author:  [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/13 "2005-06-30T16:01:32Z")
I’m not sure that Vader’s force ability wasn’t seriously weakend after his loss of limbs. After all Anakin was designed to be the uber-jedi yet he hasn’t destroyed and replaced himself as the Emperor who is supposedly just a normal dark jedi who is both hideously damged and very old by the time of RotJ. The good jedi seem to have been wiped out before Anakin and Obi Wan had their lava pit fight, nothing shows that Vader is as extremely powerful as his birth suggests he could have been.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/14 "2005-06-30T16:03:34Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#):
>
> I’m not sure that Vader’s force ability wasn’t seriously weakend after his loss of limbs. After all Anakin was designed to be the uber-jedi yet he hasn’t destroyed and replaced himself as the Emperor who is supposedly just a normal dark jedi who is both hideously damged and very old by the time of RotJ. The good jedi seem to have been wiped out before Anakin and Obi Wan had their lava pit fight, nothing shows that Vader is as extremely powerful as his birth suggests he could have been.
I think it’s more because Anakin, while powerful in the Force, is not so powerful in himself. Lemme 'splain.
I think he just doesn’t have the gumption! A lot of the terror of Vader was taken away when I saw the angst in the last movie, and now I feel pity for him and hatred of Palpy. I don’t believe Anakin has the inner strength & fortitude to take over, he’s built to serve, not lead.
I just can’t stay away from a SW thread. Sigh…
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/15 "2005-06-30T16:09:27Z")
It doesn’t matter if he lost strength or not, as we saw in the final movie:
all the fellow Jedi were killed _before_ he got all chopped up.
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### Author:  [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/16 "2005-06-30T17:26:13Z")
> [@Raguleader](#):
>
> Midichlorians are very flammable!
But how do you know? It might be thatthe burning was normal flesh and Anakin was screaming because the fireproof, but still lava hot microscopic midichlorians were re-entering his body via the anus.After all, midichlorians do have a fondness for force users.
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/17 "2005-06-30T17:30:39Z")
> [@The Controvert](#):
>
> But how do you know? It might be thatthe burning was normal flesh and Anakin was screaming because the fireproof, but still lava hot microscopic midichlorians were re-entering his body via the anus.After all, midichlorians do have a fondness for force users.
😕
:eek:
😃
:o
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/18 "2005-06-30T17:31:49Z")
Grrr…you get the idea.
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### Author:  [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/19 "2005-06-30T17:43:56Z")
I think Vader (after the lava) is much weaker than Anakin. Anakin could easily have taken over the Rebel Blockade Runner un his own and defeated all the rebels onboard. But Vader didn’t enter the Blockade Runner until it was allready subdued by Storm Troupers. I doubt a powerfull jedi would want wingmen when piloting, yet Darth Vader had wingmen, a jedi with their ultra-reactions and prescience would I think be hindered by wingmen as they tried to keep up with the Jedi. Vader’s lack of Dark Jedi Lightning powere is blamed on his lack of real hands, maybe their is much more of his original potential that he lacks? This would explain how Luke with relatively short training was able to beat his far more experienced father by R0tJ.
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### Author:  [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)
#### Post date: [June 30, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-midichlorians-and-vader/310527/20 "2005-06-30T17:52:53Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> I think it’s more because Anakin, while powerful in the Force, is not so powerful in himself. Lemme 'splain.
>
> I think he just doesn’t have the gumption! A lot of the terror of Vader was taken away when I saw the angst in the last movie, and now I feel pity for him and hatred of Palpy. I don’t believe Anakin has the inner strength & fortitude to take over, he’s built to serve, not lead.
>
> I just can’t stay away from a SW thread. Sigh…
I feel much the same way. It seems that most Sith eventually try to overthrow their master and become the new one(and get an appretice so that the cycle can continue). Vader, until the very end, never seems to try to lift a hand againest palpatine. In fact, he seems almost content to be Palpatines attack dog(in ANH, Leia sees tarkin and says “I figured you’d be the one holding Vader’s Leash”).
But after rewatching the original(non-lucasized) trilogy after seeing episode 3, it did seem like Vader, at least in ANH, was still rather immature and petulant. He likes to kill people who disapoints him(or just doesn’t have any way of controlling his temper), but both Paplatine and Grand Moff Tarkin seem more Intelligent and more Evil then Vader.
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