# Question about minyan **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941 "2005-05-15T15:46:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/1 "2005-05-15T15:46:59Z")
I once spent a night at an airport when I was approached by a young Jewish man who asked me if I would be willing to complete their minyan (a gathering of ten men needed for a congregation of prayer, which I knew). I immediately said that I was an atheist and wouldn’t have a shadow of a clue what to say, if anything, during the service, but if that didn’t bother them I’d be more than willing to help them out. He said there was no problem as long as I was sincere in my wish to help them. So I ended up standing in an airport in the middle of the night, wearing a yarmulke and holding hands with nine Jewish guys. It was kind of cool, actually. Now, my question: I didn’t have time to talk to them afterwards, as their plane was leaving. What kind of Judaism did they belong to? What sect would accept an atheist as the tenth man in a minyan, while at the same time taking the service seriously enough that they want to get it done before they leave? Is there some kind of emergency provision, like the rule that all the other rules are overturned in case of mortal danger? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/2 "2005-05-15T15:51:26Z")
1. Are you of Jewish ancestry? The rules don’t care about what you do or don’t believe in - what’s important is what you _are_. 2. The holding hands sounds… weird. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/3 "2005-05-15T15:53:16Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > 1. Are you of Jewish ancestry? The rules don’t care about what you do or don’t believe in - what’s important is what you _are_. Nope, forgot to mention that. To my knowledge there’s not a drop of Jewish blood in me, and I pointed that out to him as well. > [@](#): > > 1. The holding hands sounds… weird. It does? We stood in a ring holding hands for most of the service. Is that weird? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/4 "2005-05-15T16:04:01Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Nope, forgot to mention that. To my knowledge there’s not a drop of Jewish blood in me, and I pointed that out to him as well. Huh. The Jewishness of the participants is pretty much the basis of a minyan. Sort of the whole point. > [@Priceguy](#): > > It does? We stood in a ring holding hands for most of the service. Is that weird? I don’t know of any Jews who don’t pray facing towards Jerusalem; usually while reading the prayer from a book. This is all real nuts-and-bolts doctrine we’re talking about here. These guys don’t sound like any Jewish sect I’ve ever heard of. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/5 "2005-05-15T16:06:31Z")
They might have been those Jews for Jesus dudes. They’re pretty weird. And it’s not like they give a rat’s ass about Jewish doctrine. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/6 "2005-05-15T16:09:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > They might have been those Jews for Jesus dudes. They’re pretty weird. And it’s not like they give a rat’s ass about Jewish doctrine. ;j But they still use minyans, and pray in Hebrew? The memory of this experience is starting to feel very different to me. Who _were_ those guys? ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/7 "2005-05-15T16:11:34Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > I once spent a night at an airport when I was approached by a young Jewish man who asked me if I would be willing to complete their minyan (a gathering of ten men needed for a congregation of prayer, which I knew). I immediately said that I was an atheist and wouldn’t have a shadow of a clue what to say, if anything, during the service, but if that didn’t bother them I’d be more than willing to help them out. He said there was no problem as long as I was sincere in my wish to help them. So I ended up standing in an airport in the middle of the night, wearing a yarmulke and holding hands with nine Jewish guys. It was kind of cool, actually. > > Now, my question: I didn’t have time to talk to them afterwards, as their plane was leaving. What kind of Judaism did they belong to? What sect would accept an atheist as the tenth man in a minyan, while at the same time taking the service seriously enough that they want to get it done before they leave? Is there some kind of emergency provision, like the rule that all the other rules are overturned in case of mortal danger? Minyan is a requirement for several types of prayers. In this case, I expect ma’ariv. Here is some information: [http://www.askmoses.com/qa\_detail.html?h=287&o=161](http://www.askmoses.com/qa_detail.html?h=287&o=161) . As regards to the flavor of the Jews, we need more info! Did they have four tassels or string bunches hanging out from the corners of the bottom of their shirt? Black hats? Yarmulke? Peyes (side curls)? Regular clothes or black/white only? Did they have wives with them? How ere they dressed? Where in the country was this? Likely you ran into a group of general Orthodox Jews. However, they could have also been Chassidic, or, less likely, Conservative. But the grabbing of a stranger suggests orthodox. Details! We need more clues! Inkleberry the ;j ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/8 "2005-05-15T16:16:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t know of any Jews who don’t pray facing towards Jerusalem; usually while reading the prayer from a book. . That’s MUSLIMS. ISLAMIC people. Not us Jews. Please do not confuse. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/9 "2005-05-15T16:17:59Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Nope, forgot to mention that. To my knowledge there’s not a drop of Jewish blood in me, and I pointed that out to him as well. > > It does? We stood in a ring holding hands for most of the service. Is that weird? It was an emergency minyan, and was halachically OK. Normally not so OK, but hey, in a pinch you did just fine. Holding hands is not odd at all, from minyans I have been involved in for ma’ariv. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/10 "2005-05-15T16:21:18Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > As regards to the flavor of the Jews, we need more info! Did they have four tassels or string bunches hanging out from the corners of the bottom of their shirt? Not so I noticed. > [@](#): > > Black hats? Yarmulke? Yarmulke. Had one spare for me, too. > [@](#): > > Peyes (side curls)? Yep. > [@](#): > > Regular clothes or black/white only? Black/white, but not the really austere sort I saw in Jewish neighborhoods when I was in Antwerp. > [@](#): > > Did they have wives with them? No. > [@](#): > > Where in the country was this? I suppose you meant “world”. Schiphol airport, Amsterdam. I’m pretty sure they weren’t local, though. They were also either native English speakers or just very good at English. > [@](#): > > Likely you ran into a group of general Orthodox Jews. However, they could have also been Chassidic, or, less likely, Conservative. But the grabbing of a stranger suggests orthodox. Would Orthodox Jews grab a non-Jewish stranger? That was the last group I would have guessed at. Do Orthodox Jews routinely grab strangers when needed? > [@](#): > > It was an emergency minyan, and was halachically OK. Normally not so OK, but hey, in a pinch you did just fine. When do you hold an emergency minyan? Why did they need to hold one right then and there? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/11 "2005-05-15T16:25:09Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > That’s MUSLIMS. ISLAMIC people. Not us Jews. > > Please do not confuse. I said Jerusalem, not Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/12 "2005-05-15T16:26:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I said Jerusalem, not Mecca. Jews do not pray in the direction of anything. Again, that is Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/13 "2005-05-15T16:34:42Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Not so I noticed. > > Yarmulke. Had one spare for me, too. > Black/white, but not the really austere sort I saw in Jewish neighborhoods when I was in Antwerp. > I suppose you meant “world”. Schiphol airport, Amsterdam. I’m pretty sure they weren’t local, though. They were also either native English speakers or just very good at English. > Would Orthodox Jews grab a non-Jewish stranger? That was the last group I would have guessed at. Do Orthodox Jews routinely grab strangers when needed? > When do you hold an emergency minyan? Why did they need to hold one right then and there? Congratulations, you found a free-roaming pack of Chassidic Jews! This flavor of Jews, while sometimes appearing oddly dressed to non-Jews, are very friendly, and will happily chat up strangers. They do a lot of outreach (Hillell, [Moses.com](http://Moses.com), etc). They do more hand-holding, singing, and dancing stuff with their prayer. They are a type of ecstatic Jew. Also, their cafe at UMASS Amherst makes a tasty vegetarian pizza. They don’t usually grab strangers, unless they have to in order to round out a minyan or some such. As for the emergency, when it’s time for ma’ariv, it’s time for ma’ariv. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/14 "2005-05-15T16:40:24Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > They do more hand-holding, singing, and dancing stuff with their prayer. They are a type of ecstatic Jew. Well, these guys stood still, but they may have been quietly ecstatic, of course. > [@](#): > > As for the emergency, when it’s time for ma’ariv, it’s time for ma’ariv. Is it time for ma’ariv in the middle of the night? It was after midnight, maybe 1 or 2 am. In fact, they probably picked me because I was the first guy they found that was awake. Could it be the case that their plane wouldn’t land until after time for ma’ariv, and they doubted they’d be able to do it on board (or maybe they weren’t all going on the same plane), so they did a pre-emptive ma’ariv? ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/15 "2005-05-15T16:50:59Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Well, these guys stood still, but they may have been quietly ecstatic, of course. > > Is it time for ma’ariv in the middle of the night? It was after midnight, maybe 1 or 2 am. In fact, they probably picked me because I was the first guy they found that was awake. Could it be the case that their plane wouldn’t land until after time for ma’ariv, and they doubted they’d be able to do it on board (or maybe they weren’t all going on the same plane), so they did a pre-emptive ma’ariv? Ma’ariv is a night prayer, done 45 min after sundown (approx). Did they tell you why they needed a minyan at that time or what prayer they were saying? I’m not sure what prayer they were saying then, or whether they were praying based on their home-land time, rather than local time, which might make a difference. In any case, you were needed and you agreed, and that is a mitzvah. Good on you. For more information about Jews, and Chassidic Jews especially, please see [http://www.askmoses.com](http://www.askmoses.com) or look in your phone book for your local chabod house. They will be more than happy to help. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/16 "2005-05-15T16:52:59Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > Did they tell you why they needed a minyan at that time or what prayer they were saying? No. They were in a bit of a hurry and since I’d already said I didn’t have a clue what to do or say I guess they thought it was a waste of time to educate me then and there. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/17 "2005-05-15T17:28:17Z")
> [@inkleberry](#): > > Jews do not pray in the direction of anything. > > Again, that is Muslims. Orthodox Jews, at least, pray in the direction of Jerusalem. In Jerusalem, one prays in the direction of the Temple Mount. Orthodox Jews would have also asked if you were Jewish first. The tenth guy doesn’t have to pray, or know anything, but he definitely needs to be Jewish. I don’t know who these guys were, but I doubt they were any sort of Orthodox, Hasidim included. Ma’ariv can be prayed in the middle of the night. 45 minutes after sundown is the earliest possible time, but if one didn’t get to it earlier, one can pray it until predawn hours. One or two AM should be fine pretty much anywhere. If a group knew they were going to get to their destination during a time when it was OK for ma’ariv, they probably would have waited to pray at the airport, when they can assemble, stand, orient towards Jerusalem, etc., rather than try to pray on the plane at the earliest possible time. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/18 "2005-05-15T17:41:30Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Nope, forgot to mention that. To my knowledge there’s not a drop of Jewish blood in me, and I pointed that out to him as well. > > It does? We stood in a ring holding hands for most of the service. Is that weird? Obviously, you haven’t been part of a prayer circle. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/19 "2005-05-15T17:46:22Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Obviously, you haven’t been part of a prayer circle. :rolleyes: Please roll your eyes at **Alessan** ; _I_ didn’t think it was weird. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941/20 "2005-05-15T17:49:19Z")
**oury** , It’s not that he’s asking if ‘standing in a circle holding hands praying’ is weird. He’s asking if that’s a weird thing _for a group of Jews_ to be doing. I’ve never heard of an Orthodox group doing this - is this something Conservative or Reform Jews do? (I’ve never heard of it in that context either, but my experience there is much more limited.) Would Conservative/Reform people want a ma’ariv minyan at 1 am in an airport, for that matter? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-minyan/303941.md?page=2)