# Question about my computer Recycle Bin **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2020, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135 "2020-06-06T01:48:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/21 "2020-06-07T19:44:05Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I presume that what **Musicat** is referring to is moving (not copying) a file to another location on the same logical device (same drive letter). That process is identical to renaming the file – it just makes a change to the file table, and is essentially instantaneous regardless of file size. In fact on the old PDP-10 timesharing system the RENAME command was the method used to move a file from one folder (directory) to another on the same account. But actually copying a file creates another physical instance of it which is of course a different matter, as is moving a file across to a different logical or physical device. Yes, I should have said “move” instead of “copy” – my mistake. A Windows move is like the PDP RENAME – only a directory entry. Thanks for correcting that. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/22 "2020-06-08T01:46:39Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > This is only a gut feeling (working around such problems is what I do now; diagnosing such problems isn’t in my job description), but I think such bugs are often the cause of OS system crashes. Windows is not known to be stable. Although old bugs have been fixed or minimized (MS often takes 20 years to do it :rolleyes: ), the increased complexity of newer programs keeps the bug list pretty full, and OS crashes have not gone away, just gotten harder to find. Yes, the task scheduler can get mighty unhappy sometimes. > [@GESancMan](#): > > Dude. Have you ever _used_ Windows? This was one of the things that drove me craziest about it. It would never let me delete a damn file or folder because “files are still in use,” when they clearly weren’t. And as **Senegoid** says, rebooting usually cleared it up. Apparently my memories of Windows are worse and more rose-colored than I realized. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/23 "2020-06-08T12:24:26Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Note that “deleting” a file, in modern systems, doesn’t actually delete anything, just moves it to the recycle folder. Deleting files from the recycle folder is when the file really gets deleted. How does one access this recycle folder? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/24 "2020-06-08T13:28:31Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > How does one access this recycle folder? You don’t, because, as **Musicat** pointed out, “deleting” a file doesn’t do anything to the file itself. The ones and zeroes making up the file still sit on the same position on the hard disk as before. The only thing that is changed is the directory entry, which now labels the file as being in the recycling bin rather than its previous path in the folders. When you then empty the recycling bin, there is still nothing that happens to those ones and zeroes either. The only thing that changes is the directory entry, which now labels the hard disk sectors taken up by the file (which don’t need to be contiguous) as available for reuse. But that doesn’t mean it is reused (i.e., other ones and zeroes are written onto it) straightaway; depending on how much you move your data around, and where on the hard disk your system sends newly stored data, these sectors may continue to be occupied by the supposedly deleted file for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/25 "2020-06-08T13:43:35Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > How does one access this recycle folder? The little desktop icon not good enough? It should be called something like $Recycle.Bin or RECYCLER ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/26 "2020-06-08T15:39:50Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > How does one access this recycle folder? You go to the Recycle Bin. It will show you every file that’s currently linked there. If you want to access a file in this folder, hit the restore function for it and that will restore the normal links to that file. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/27 "2020-06-08T15:59:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You go to the Recycle Bin. It will show you every file that’s currently linked there. Even after you ‘empty’ the bin? How does that work? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/28 "2020-06-08T16:26:11Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Even after you ‘empty’ the bin? How does that work? There is no secondary, didn’t-really-mean-it, bin with your files in it after you empty the Recycle Bin. If nothing shows up when you open up the bin on your desktop, it’s basically gone. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/29 "2020-06-08T16:39:45Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > Even after you ‘empty’ the bin? How does that work? The recycler folder we’re talking about is the Recycle Bin. Once you empty the bin, the links are gone and there’s no regular way to access those files. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/30 "2020-06-08T16:43:54Z")
Back to the topic of files reappearing, it is most likely a corrupted Recycle Bin. [This article](https://www.thewindowsclub.com/recycle-bin-is-corrupted-windows/) has instructions on how to easily reset it. Note that it will empty everything from your bin as part of the process, so make sure you don’t want to recover anything from it first. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/31 "2020-06-08T18:07:31Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > There is no secondary, didn’t-really-mean-it, bin with your files in it after you empty the Recycle Bin. If nothing shows up when you open up the bin on your desktop, it’s basically gone. Nitpick: Much or most of the file probably hasn’t been overwritten yet. IIRC, Whats-his-name Norton might have been able to get some of it back even decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2020, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/32 "2020-06-08T19:56:46Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > If nothing shows up when you open up the bin on your desktop, it’s basically gone. Nah. If you recently emptied the bin (which means the links to the files have been removed) and haven’t loaded much data onto that machine since, then chances are very good that the hard disk sectors on which the file was stored haven’t been re-written in the meantime. Off-the-shelf recovery software should be able to locate and restore it. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/33 "2020-06-09T15:21:27Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > The “deleted” files are not moved. Only the reference (the directory entry) is altered. This entry is a “pointer,” a common computer term. Data is rarely moved, only the pointer to where it resides is modified. > > You can observe this easily. Try coping a large block or blocks of data, say 500GB, from one disk drive to another on the same computer. This will require the physical data to be moved, and it will take some time. I am well aware of how file systems work. All file systems in use today handle file deletion in the same fundamental way. > [@](#): > > Then try to “copy” the same data from one location _on the same drive_. This should be nearly instantaneous, as only the directory pointers need to be changed, and this is a comparatively small amount of data. (That only works if the OS is smart enough to know this. Recent Windows versions (from 7?) know this, older ones did not (DOS?). No, that is BS and nothing more than uninformed Windows bashing, and shows you are conflating the operating system and the file system. All file systems which have ever supported a version of Windows allow files to be moved by altering the file table and not by physically duplicating bytes on the storage device, and all version of Windows have used that facility to move files instead of making temporary copies of them. > [@](#): > > I’m not sure how Linux handles this, but the concept has been in Computer Science for decades (I learned about it ca. 1978).You are correct about only one instance of the file exists, but you might misunderstand how the reference (directory pointers) work and how files are flagged in the directory. Before the Recycle Bin was developed, DOS/Windows would delete a file with a single byte entry; the first byte of the file’s directory reference block. Linux file systems handle file deletion and moves in the same fundamental way. What you are refusing to get is that the Recycle Bin is a Windows _shell_ concept. It has nothing to do with how any Windows file system or OS has ever handled the deletion of files from disk, and nothing to do with how either FAT32 or NTFS handles file deletion. Again, only Windows Explorer and the GUI APIs use the Recycle Bin. A file deleted by Windows itself, or application software directly calling the Windows API, does not use the Recycle Bin. You can tell because things like application temporary files, files replaced via application updates, or files deleted through the command-line interface do not go through the Recycle Bin. If the Recycle Bin was a fundamental part of file deletion from Windows file systems you would see _all_ deleted files inside it. It is simply a convenience implemented under the hood by nothing more complicated than a special hidden directory. A Recycle Bin is also not a Windows-only concept. Mac OS had an equivalent called the Trash since its introduction, and various Linux graphical environments implement one as well. They all work in the same fundamental way, by moving files to a specially designated directory hidden from normal view until the user commands them to be deleted from disk and by providing an API to software to use it so the software itself does not have to move the files into the designated directory or figure out where it is. It’s very clear you have no particular knowledge of how Windows works and are deciding it must work in dumb ways out of your personal distaste of it, and that is not OK for answering factual questions about it. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135/34 "2020-06-09T15:42:10Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > You don’t, because, as **Musicat** pointed out, “deleting” a file doesn’t do anything to the file itself. The ones and zeroes making up the file still sit on the same position on the hard disk as before. The only thing that is changed is the directory entry, which now labels the file as being in the recycling bin rather than its previous path in the folders. > > When you then empty the recycling bin, there is still nothing that happens to those ones and zeroes either. The only thing that changes is the directory entry, which now labels the hard disk sectors taken up by the file (which don’t need to be contiguous) as available for reuse. But that doesn’t mean it is reused (i.e., other ones and zeroes are written onto it) straightaway; depending on how much you move your data around, and where on the hard disk your system sends newly stored data, these sectors may continue to be occupied by the supposedly deleted file for a long time. The Recycle Bin folder is in various locations depending on the version of Windows. If it is the Win9x lineage, it is a hidden folder named RECYCLER at the root of a drive with it enabled. In the Windows NT lineage, it is called $Recycle.Bin in the same location. Windows NT-based systems (all modern Windows) additionally place special permissions on the Recycle Bin folder to prevent access to it outside of the normal Recycle Bin interface, both to protect how it works and prevent users of the system from snooping on others’ deleted files. These can be overridden to let you enter the directory through the shell but that is not recommended. Just like any other deleted file, the data of files “emptied” (deleted) from the Recycle Bin may still exist on the disk but unindexed and may be recoverable by data recovery software. A file inside the Recycle Bin should not be said to be deleted at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-my-computer-recycle-bin/855135.md?page=1)