# Question about NFL incident in DAL vs. MIN (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512 "2010-01-19T02:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/61 "2010-01-19T17:15:37Z")
Throwing on 4th down doesn’t prolong the game any more than running on 4th down. The clock stops either way. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/62 "2010-01-19T17:18:04Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Throwing on 4th down doesn’t prolong the game any more than running on 4th down. The clock stops either way. Turning it over on downs is shorter than scoring a touchdown, kicking an extra point, and kicking off again. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/63 "2010-01-19T17:21:20Z")
The clock runs on kickoffs. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/64 "2010-01-19T17:27:42Z")
Interestingly, the Cowboys threw the ball 5 times in the 4th Quarter, up 24-0 on the Eagles in the last game of the season ([cite](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300103006&period=4)), even with 5 minutes left on the clock and the game completely in-hand… In the Wild Card round, they passed 4 times up 20 in the 4th quarter on a drive that ended with 8 minutes to go, and then ran out the clock with no passes… ([cite](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300109006&period=4)) Not exactly the same situation, but their move of keeping all starters in the game in week 17, and passing the ball in the 4th quarter, up 24-0 could be viewed as unsportsmanlike (or plain stupid). ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/65 "2010-01-19T17:39:51Z")
Gregg Easterbrook > [@](#): > > Why was Favre even still on the field with Minnesota ahead 27-3 with five minutes remaining? It seems pretty obvious Brad Childress wanted to pad Favre’s stats. Why was Favre not only still throwing but play-faking at the two-minute warning, with Minnesota leading by 24 points? Bad sportsmanship, which always comes back to bite you. It’s not just that Minnesota’s bad sportsmanship makes the Vikings hard to root for. Their behavior, followed by boasting after the game about the margin of victory, is immature, which always comes back to bite you. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/66 "2010-01-19T17:43:47Z")
Always comes back to bite you? Really? In what sense? ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/67 "2010-01-19T17:48:56Z")
IMnshO, with two minutes to play the game is still on. Any and all efforts to earn more points would be fully acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/68 "2010-01-19T17:55:07Z")
Dick move. Unsportsmanlike. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/69 "2010-01-19T17:58:19Z")
What do y’all think of the Challenge Flag kicking incident? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/70 "2010-01-19T18:03:24Z")
> [@phungi](#): > > Interestingly, the Cowboys threw the ball 5 times in the 4th Quarter, up 24-0 on the Eagles in the last game of the season ([cite](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300103006&period=4)), even with 5 minutes left on the clock and the game completely in-hand… What is this evidence of? That drive started with over 8 minutes left in the game, clearly enough time to mount a three-score comeback. They killed over six minutes on the drive, ending the game. They did try to pass on 4th & 2, but they were on the Eagles 35, which is not exactly FG range and it’s doubtful they were throwing a bomb to the endzone. They likely just wanted a first down so they could kneel down, which they did as soon as they got the ball back. > [@](#): > > In the Wild Card round, they passed 4 times up 20 in the 4th quarter on a drive that ended with 8 minutes to go, and then ran out the clock with no passes… ([cite](http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=300109006&period=4)) Over 8 minutes to go? What about the first quarter? > [@](#): > > Not exactly the same situation, but their move of keeping all starters in the game in week 17, and passing the ball in the 4th quarter, up 24-0 could be viewed as unsportsmanlike (or plain stupid). This isn’t about what happens in the fourth quarter. Note how the Jets-Chargers game had much more scoring in the fourth quarter than the first three combined. This is about what happens at the **end** of the fourth quarter. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/71 "2010-01-19T18:07:08Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > What do y’all think of the Challenge Flag kicking incident? It was a stupid thing for Rice (it was Rice, right) to do. It was too bad he had to be flagged for it, because it didn’t seem like a really egregious foul, or whatever, but … whaddayagonnado? The ref really didn’t have a choice but to penalize him. It didn’t really make that much difference in the game anyway from what I recall. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/72 "2010-01-19T18:07:50Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > What do y’all think of the Challenge Flag kicking incident? You mean in terms of unsportsmanlike conduct? He was penalized 15 yards for unsportsmanlike conduct, so the NFL itself officially ruled that to be, in fact, unsportsmanlike conduct. Not sure what you’re asking. If you’re just asking in general about the implosion of the Chargers, that would be better suited in the Divisional Round thread. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > It was a stupid thing for Rice (it was Rice, right) to do. It was too bad he had to be flagged for it, because it didn’t seem like a really egregious foul, or whatever, but … whaddayagonnado? The ref really didn’t have a choice but to penalize him. > > It didn’t really make that much difference in the game anyway from what I recall. It was Vincent Jackson. It did not matter regarding that drive, which resulted in a TD anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/73 "2010-01-19T18:11:33Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > Always comes back to bite you? Really? In what sense? Easterbrook maintains that running up the score is bully-ish behavior and when teams beat up on weaker foes, they wind up not playing as hard or losing thier edge in competitive games. He mostly says this more in college games where the big football program schools beat up on cupcake little schools and run up the score. But now that he’s said it, if the Vikings lose next week in the championship, he can turn around and say “See that? I called it last week.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/74 "2010-01-19T18:17:19Z")
The Cowboys weren’t a cupcake team. They were a division winning playoff team on a hot streak, who’d been smack talking the Vikings all week (and had previously run up their own scores against the Eagles). It wasn’t USC beating up on DeVrie. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/75 "2010-01-19T18:21:11Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Easterbrook maintains that running up the score is bully-ish behavior and when teams beat up on weaker foes, they wind up not playing as hard or losing thier edge in competitive games. He mostly says this more in college games where the big football program schools beat up on cupcake little schools and run up the score. > > But now that he’s said it, if the Vikings lose next week in the championship, he can turn around and say “See that? I called it last week.” Exactly, it is basically nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/76 "2010-01-19T18:26:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The Cowboys weren’t a cupcake team. They were a division winning playoff team on a hot streak, who’d been smack talking the Vikings all week (and had previously run up their own scores against the Eagles). It wasn’t USC beating up on DeVrie. Cite re the Cowboys were smack talking the Vikings all week, please. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/77 "2010-01-19T18:29:22Z")
Totally acceptable to go for the touchdown, IMHO. Each team should do what is in their best interest regardless of the feelings of the opposing team. If this means running up the score, then so be it. I don’t have a problem with the winning team taking a knee at the end of the game to run out the clock; if by doing this they ensure the win by giving the other team absolutely no chance of of a turnover, then more power to them. I also have no problem with the winning team attempting to score for the whole game, whether or not this is perceived as “running up the score.” What is unsportsmanlike, IMHO, is a losing team taking a knee at the end of the game. Almost as bad is either team taking a knee at the end of the half. I’m also not too impressed with the losing team not playing at 100% up to the end of the game. If Dallas was guilty of this, then they are a bunch of losers. This was a playoff game. The season is over for the losing team. If the Dallas defense was no longer playing the game and was just trying to prevent injury during the last few minutes of their season, then they are a bunch of wusses. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/78 "2010-01-19T18:47:58Z")
I’m normally one against running up the score, but I don’t think that this is necessarily an instance of that. We have to consider the entire picture before coming to a conclusion. First, it was fourth down. When the came is already 99% decided, passing on the first 3 downs is generally dumb and/or douchey with the occassional exception of attempting to keep the defense honest. Throwing a bomb in that situation would be douchey and running up the score since it’s a low chance of success and stops the clock on failure and have to punt anyway or run, get a couple more yards, run some time off the clock and pin them a couple yards deeper. Second, there were in the red zone. Punting is simply not an option on fourth down when you’re in the red zone; it just doesn’t make sense. If they’d kicked a field goal, that would be douchey, since it’s an obvious attempt to score, prolongs the game and, worse, has another kick-off, and that’s your highest chance for injuries right there. So their options are run or pass. Since it’s 4th down, if they throw an incomplete pass or run and don’t make it, both would turn over on downs and result in a clock stoppage, so there’s essentially no difference; what really matters was which one had the higher chance of getting a first down. Because of the situation, with them stacking against the run, a pass actually makes the most sense. Moreso, since they were stacking against the run, a pass more than a few yards off the line is probably more likely to be open. So the real question is, what kind of pass play did they call? If they called one intending for a touchdown, it was douchey, but if they called one hoping for a first down and open guy was in the endzone, that’s simply the breaks. So, I think it’s probably at least as likely that they made the least douchey call intending to try to get the game done, and it just broke that way. Hell, the coach could have intended a short pass and either the receiver decided to push it or Favre did, which could very well mean most of the team could very well not have been trying to run the score up, but because of the actions of a few individuals, it looked like they were. However, I will say that leaving Favre in that late in the game is questionable at best. Anyone could have handed the ball off, and not making that first down and turning it over at that point wouldn’t have changed the outcome. So, IMO, if you’re going to be upset, be upset over still having their starters in, which could be evidence of running up the score, where the actual play itself is not. But no one is complaining about that, so I guess that doesn’t matter. TLDR: Kicking a field goal or throwing a bomb would be running up the score. Throwing a pass on fourth down in the redzone with less than a minute left that ends as a touchdown is not evidence of running up the score. Leaving in starters at that point may have been, but no one is arguing that, so it’s moot. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/79 "2010-01-19T18:50:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The Cowboys […] had previously run up their own scores against the Eagles Complete bullshit. In what universe did the Cowboys run up the score against the Eagles? Cite or admit you are just spouting bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/80 "2010-01-19T18:55:48Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I’m not sure why Brooking is being accused of that. Probably because he wasted no time running over to the Vikings sideline to yell at them after the play. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512.md?page=5)