# Question about NFL incident in DAL vs. MIN (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 19, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512 "2010-01-19T02:53:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/101 "2010-01-19T22:13:40Z")
My google-fu is coming up empty. Does anybody know what the NFL record is for scoring during the last 2 minutes of a game? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/102 "2010-01-19T23:12:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It was 4th and 11. They had to go for a first down, touchdown, or kick a field goal. Or they could have run a running play and likely given up possession on downs. If you can reliably go for 11+ but not score a touchdown inside the red zone, great, but getting a touchdown at that point is certainly a possible outcome. Most likely Dallas was getting the ball after that play no matter what. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 4th and 3 from the 11, but that’s still close enough to the goal line that it’s kind of dumb to expect a team to only try for a 1st down, but make sure they stay out of the endzone. As I said, I was talking about the entire drive. Second and ten from the 37 was the first throw, if you’d like to be specific. Diogenes, if you really think that you’re arguing with anything that’s been said in this thread, my condolences. I suspect that you don’t care one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/103 "2010-01-19T23:36:25Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > My google-fu is coming up empty. Does anybody know what the NFL record is for scoring during the last 2 minutes of a game? Nope, but looking for the best comeback yields this: The [Comeback](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Comeback_%28American_football%29#First_half) Which has the really nifty quote of "With the score, the Bills had cut their deficit from 32 points to four in a span of just 6:52. " Doesn’t really help you at all. But I thought that was kinda impressive. I’ve always used the measure that a GOOD QB should be able to put up 7 points in 2 mins, 14 if he’s desperate and they manage to get everything going the right way. 21 is just crazy if anyone’s done that in 2 mins I’d be really impressed\*, and I’d believe the defense would have to have played a HUGE hand in it. \*Unless it was done by the Patriots. In which case, them them and their score running/come backing ways! How dare they! :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/104 "2010-01-19T23:57:01Z")
Any team that _worried_ whether it could hold a 27-3 lead with the ball deep in its opponent’s territory and two minutes left would have serious self-esteem issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/105 "2010-01-20T00:38:47Z")
I remember [this game](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198410210dal.htm) against the Saints in 1984, where the score was 27-6 but Dallas scored 21 in the last 5:00, then went on to win in OT. Good times! ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/106 "2010-01-20T00:55:04Z")
> [@Bearflag70](#): > > I remember [this game](http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/198410210dal.htm) against the Saints in 1984, where the score was 27-6 but Dallas scored 21 in the last 5:00, then went on to win in OT. > > Good times! [My memory isn’t as good as I thought](http://lonestarstruck.com/2009/12/flashback-dallas-vs-new-orleans-1984.html). That site says the score was 27-6 to start the 4th quarter, then Dallas scored 7 early in the 4th quarter to make it 27-13, then scored 7 more at 3:59 to make it 27-20, then scored 7 more at 2:53 to tie it at 27-27, then got possession of the ball twice in the final 1:20, but was not able to score any more in the 4th. So, I’d say as a benchmark, 21 to 28 points in the final 4 minutes is rare but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/107 "2010-01-20T01:07:19Z")
The Vikings once came back from 23 down wiith about 8 and half minutes remaining against the Eagles in 1985. [Link.](http://articles.latimes.com/1985-12-02/sports/sp-12539_1) ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/108 "2010-01-20T01:56:47Z")
Millionaire professional athletes playing a full contact game who every time they can play the macho card have no business complaining if they get scored on too much. ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/109 "2010-01-20T02:09:42Z")
Has there ever been an instance of a team “giving up” a pointless TD, to make it even more meaningless? For example, they are up 21-7 with little time left within the 10. Rather than take a knee and end it, they decide to go for it. The defense seeing what a joke it is, just stands there and “lets them score”, out of contempt. I recall this happening in an NBA game. They left some starter in during a blowout so he could set a record or get a triple-double. The opposing team just stood there and let him get his meanlingless stat. Sounds like something Charles Barkley would’ve initiated. Or am I imagining something with this minor hijack? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/110 "2010-01-20T02:15:57Z")
Oh come on, you guys should all know the answer to the greatest comeback question. It wasn’t that long ago, a premiere QB did it, and it happened on Monday Night Football. [Colts make one of greatest comebacks against Bucs D](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20031006_IND@TB) The bragging claim, where you count the time left based on when you actually scored the first points in the comeback, is 21 points in under four minutes. In reality the Colts started that drive with 5:09 left in the game down by 21 and managed to win it in overtime. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/111 "2010-01-20T02:17:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > 4th and 3 from the 11, but that’s still close enough to the goal line that it’s kind of dumb to expect a team to only try for a 1st down, but make sure they stay out of the endzone. Brian Westbrook and Maurice Jones-Drew have both done exactly that to ensure victories, busting through the line and intentionally taking a knee at the 1. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/112 "2010-01-20T03:18:48Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Brian Westbrook and Maurice Jones-Drew have both done exactly that to ensure victories, busting through the line and intentionally taking a knee at the 1. My mistake on the 4th and 3. Mea culpa. But catching the ball and taking a knee on the 5 yard line would be _far more_ insulting in this situation, IMO. If you’re gonna score, just score and get it over with. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/113 "2010-01-20T03:33:15Z")
Yeah, I have to agree with you on that. I was just pointing out that it is possible. But oh man, now that I’m envisioning it actually happening, heh, you couldn’t get much douchier than that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/114 "2010-01-20T03:35:14Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Brian Westbrook and Maurice Jones-Drew have both done exactly that to ensure victories, busting through the line and intentionally taking a knee at the 1. They should have been cut for that bullshit. People should have pelted them with batteries. I didn’t say it was impossible anyway, just hard. ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/115 "2010-01-20T03:37:31Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > My mistake on the 4th and 3. Mea culpa. > > But catching the ball and taking a knee on the 5 yard line would be _far more_ insulting in this situation, IMO. If you’re gonna score, just score and get it over with. The point is that they are not going to score. They are going to turn the ball over to the opponent on their own 1 yard line, forcing the most difficult and time consuming drive possible for the other team’s offense. Or if it is not on 4th down it keeps the clock running. Presumably, in that case the offense uses its fresh set of downs to run out the clock. That is a strategic choice and unrelated to mercy or sportsmanship. Keeping the ball out of the hands of the opposing offense is a valid strategy for winning in many cases. If a player is kneeling at the 1 for the sole purpose of not running up the score then that is doubly insulting imho. It’s like saying, “Hey look, I just proved I’m good enough to score on you again, but I won’t since you are too much of pussy to stop me. But remember I could have if I wanted to.” It would be the epitome of douchebaggery. Hell, just score and let the other team get a chance to respond with a score of their own. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/116 "2010-01-20T03:44:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They should have been cut for that bullshit. People should have pelted them with batteries. You know absolutely nothing about this game. Those two plays were two of the most head’s up, smart, textbook plays of the last several years. Taking a knee ensures a win. In those specific situations, it ensured the other team wouldn’t get the ball, which all but eliminated their chances of scoring and recovering an onside kick for a chance to win the game. Could you PLEASE stop posting out of your ass in these threads? ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/117 "2010-01-20T03:46:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They should have been cut for that bullshit. People should have pelted them with batteries. What the fuck are you nattering on about? They were both universally lauded and rightfully so. Is this just more retarded bullshit like your claim that the Cowboys deserved it because they ran up the score on the Eagles? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/118 "2010-01-20T03:50:29Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > My mistake on the 4th and 3. Mea culpa. > > But catching the ball and taking a knee on the 5 yard line would be _far more_ insulting in this situation, IMO. If you’re gonna score, just score and get it over with. But, again, scoring wasn’t even in the team’s best interest, so why were they “gonna score” to begin with, is the question. The one inevitable thing about a comeback, no matter how miraculous it is, is that it starts when the team with the lead gives the ball to the team behind. Every second you hold onto the ball while you’re leading is shaving down the other team’s chances tangibly. So all this MJD/Westbrook talk about how difficult and silly it is to convert a 4th and 3 without scoring is missing the point. They didn’t run any time off the clock because they were trying to get a touchdown rather than actually ending the game with them in the lead. Scoring _hurts_ your chances of winning when compared to milking clock, and they went for the score anyway. That’s running up the score if the phrase is to have any meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/119 "2010-01-20T04:04:11Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > You know absolutely nothing about this game. I’m reasonably confident that I know as much about it as anyone on this board. This is not an issue of knowldege of the game, just philosophy. I know that my opinions are not conventional, but a lot of what is conventional drives me crazy. > [@](#): > > Those two plays were two of the most head’s up, smart, textbook plays of the last several years. Taking a knee ensures a win. In those specific situations, it ensured the other team wouldn’t get the ball, which all but eliminated their chances of scoring and recovering an onside kick for a chance to win the game. > > Could you PLEASE stop posting out of your ass in these threads? I understand the reasoning. I just think it’s specious. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512/120 "2010-01-20T04:06:50Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > What the fuck are you nattering on about? They were both universally lauded and rightfully so. Not by me. They’re paid to score touchdowns, not take knees. My grandma can take a knee. Mach schau, motherfuckers. I can’t stand to see professional athletes quit trying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nfl-incident-in-dal-vs-min-spoilers/525512.md?page=7)