# Question about Nihilism **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 10, 2005, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195 "2005-05-10T08:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/1 "2005-05-10T08:43:06Z")
Does Nihilism in the philosophical sense include refutations of scientific laws and such (ex. Law of Gravity) or does it only include philosophical beliefs (ex. Do I exist) type of beliefs. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/2 "2005-05-10T08:44:40Z")
Lol yeah I meant to end that with a ? and not a . :smack: ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/3 "2005-05-10T09:19:22Z")
The way I see it is that nihilism is about relevance. A nihilist wouldn’t claim that the law of gravity is wrong, doesn’t exist or whathave you, but rather that it is irrelevant, doesn’t hold any value, and doesn’t really matter one way or another. In fact, it’s so irrelevant that the entire question if it’s true or not is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/4 "2005-05-10T09:25:20Z")
[Nihilism](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/) is a _universal negation, ie._ a simple rule: “always answer no”. Philosophically, it is arguably even more empty of substance than solipsism. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/5 "2005-05-10T14:52:15Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > [Nihilism](http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nothingness/) is a _universal negation, ie._ a simple rule: “always answer no”. Philosophically, it is arguably even more empty of substance than solipsism. You refer to metaphysical nihilism. Ethical and existential nihilism raise serious philosphical questions not so easily dismissed. [Here](http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm)’s a good discussion of same. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/6 "2005-05-10T15:24:47Z")
Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though? The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn’t really a nihilist. ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/7 "2005-05-10T15:26:47Z")
I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/8 "2005-05-10T15:38:12Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though? > > The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn’t really a nihilist. Yeah. I think this stuff is best dealt with through literature. Meursault and Raskolnikov bring it to life. Big downer, though. ---
**Author:** ![Phnord\_Prephect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Phnord\_Prephect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phnord_Prephect)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/9 "2005-05-11T08:57:28Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Who cares about existential or ethical nihilism, though? > > The odd thing about nihilism, is that if one believed in nihilism there would be no point talking about nihilism, or explaining why you believed in nihilism. So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn’t really a nihilist. The first rule of nihilism club is, you don’t talk about nihilism club! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/10 "2005-05-11T12:36:07Z")
I can’t agree with the idea that Nihilism brings up any questions. BY definition, it’s a pointless argument which has no useful things to say about the world or man’s place within it. ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/11 "2005-05-11T13:15:00Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > I can’t agree with the idea that Nihilism brings up any questions. BY definition, it’s a pointless argument which has no useful things to say about the world or man’s place within it. Do You say then, that existence has a purpose and meaning? That there are objective values? Prove it! ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/12 "2005-05-11T13:25:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So anybody who talks about nihilism or claims to be a nihilist isn’t really a nihilist. True. Doesn’t mean it’s not correct, though. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/13 "2005-05-11T13:51:07Z")
Just watch your step, or they _cut off your johnson_! ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/14 "2005-05-11T14:15:40Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Just watch your step, or they _cut off your johnson_! Yeah, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, at least its an ethos 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/15 "2005-05-11T20:14:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Do You say then, that existence has a purpose and meaning? That there are objective values? Prove it! Ah, but I didn’t say that. I simply said that Nihilism, by defition, can add nothing and raises no questions. All answers in Nihilism (if not specifically “No”) boil to down stating that there is no meaning to anything, that there are no worthwhile questions to ask. However, I can “disprove” it in five sentences: ``` Nihilism fails by assuming what it sets out to prove: that eistence is meaningless. This may or may not be true in an arbitrary sense, but since by definition, any individual may ascribe meaning to his or her own life or actions. The fact that the Nihilist may not agree is irrelevant, as the meaning, however fascile, brutish, or simplistic, is the individual's to determine. Obviously, this may not hold true for all definitions of Nihilism, but again, by definition these cannot be truly Nihilistic. The assumption of a standard, however arbitrary, by which one can measure ones values means that a particular value and meaning has appeared: at the least, truth exists as a value. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/58956e/32.png) [@Hoodoo\_Ulove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoodoo_Ulove)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/16 "2005-05-11T22:35:22Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Ah, but I didn’t say that. I simply said that Nihilism, by defition, can add nothing and raises no questions. Nihilism seeks to add nothing. If it raises, no questions, what are you answering? > [@](#): > > Nihilism fails by assuming what it sets out to prove: that eistence is meaningless. Nihilism needs to prove nothing. > [@](#): > > This may or may not be true in an arbitrary sense, but since by definition, any individual may ascribe meaning to his or her own life or actions. The fact that the Nihilist may not agree is irrelevant, as the meaning, however fascile, brutish, or simplistic, is the individual’s to determine. You may ascribe meaning to a turd. This does not give it meaning. > [@](#): > > The assumption of a standard, however arbitrary, by which one can measure ones values means that a particular value and meaning has appeared: at the least, truth exists as a value. If an arbitrary standard gives value and meaning, then a diametrically opposite standard does so equally. Are both valid? I spit on your truth. I can understand your choosing not to look into the abyss. Cowardice is easy and pleasant. ---
**Author:** ![Antivenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f17d59/32.png) [@Antivenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antivenin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/17 "2005-05-12T03:25:16Z")
> [@Phnord Prephect](#): > > The first rule of nihilism club is, you don’t talk about nihilism club! 😕 ROFLMAO!! I needed that. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/18 "2005-05-12T07:08:35Z")
> [@Antivenin](#): > > ROFLMAO!! > > I needed that. Mine was funnier ☹ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/19 "2005-05-12T09:07:07Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#): > > Mine was funnier Yeah, but it would have been funnier if you worked in a marmot or something, dude. It really would have tied the whole joke together, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195/20 "2005-05-12T13:48:50Z")
> [@sewalk](#): > > Yeah, but it would have been funnier if you worked in a marmot know? Shut the fuck up Donny. You’re out of your element. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-nihilism/303195.md?page=2)