# Question about opening credits of "Cheers" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366 "2002-05-10T20:54:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/21 "2002-05-15T04:19:51Z")
Nick at Nite _used_ to be the last bastion of full length, uncut reruns on tv. Alas, tis no more. They cut and compress like the rest of 'em. At least so I’ve read. I haven’t had a tv at home in years. (When I did, I mostly watched Nick at Night, though.) ---
**Author:** ![Philosophocles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b38774/32.png) [@Philosophocles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philosophocles)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/22 "2002-05-15T05:35:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\*I thought that showing legs near Rhea Perlman’s name indicated that the character was sexy and perhaps a bit mysterious (or, at least, she thought of herself that way!) It doesn’t seem that insulting at all. Perhaps the photo archive did not have a suitable picture of a diminuitive Italian barmaid. > > As for Wendt–I don’t know. I seem to recall that in the early episodes, though, Cliff was not credited in the opening montage–John Ratzenberger’s name appeared at the end of the show. I think their parts were just intended to be more minor in the beginning. \*\* Ratzenberger originally tried out for the role of Norm. When he didn’t get the role, he pitched the idea of the Cliff Clavin character to the show’s producers. They agreed to include him as a minor character to start. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/23 "2002-05-15T13:20:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tamex \* > \*\*After looking at **GIGObuster** ’s links, I can tell you that the “We Win” guy is not Coach. There is a different picture (in the top link) that has Nicholas Consanto’s name on it. The “We Win” Guy (second link) comes at the very end of the credits and is not attributed to any member of the cast. > > They did compress the opening theme in syndication, but I thought that they played the originals on Nick at Nite. I could be wrong, though, and I don’t have cable anymore to check. \*\* This makes even less sense, then. Why should Wendt get hosed this way? I think he was a fan favorite. I’m almost positive the theme was compressed during the show’s initial broadcast run, around the same time Lilith became a regular cast member. ---
**Author:** ![Goose68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/db5fbb/32.png) [@Goose68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goose68)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/24 "2011-08-26T06:20:08Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > We’ve got a six-week-old baby at our house, so Mrs. Sauron and I have been up a lot at night. I’ve gotten to see a lot of _Cheers_ reruns on Nick at Night. > > I’ve noticed something odd, though, about the opening credits. If you’ll remember, the _Cheers_ credits were set against a backdrop of a photo montage from the early 1900s (I’m guessing at the time period). As the names of the cast were displayed, an obvious effort was made to link the photo with the character played by that person. For example, when the name “Ted Danson” was displayed, the photo would be that of a dark-haired bartender. When the name “Woody Haralson” was displayed, the photo was of a younger man behind a bar with a somewhat winsome expression on his face. And so on. Each photo is displayed for about three seconds, the same length of time the actor’s name is displayed. > > This trend was broken in two instances, though. For Rhea Perlman (who played Carla), the photo showed a woman’s legs. No face shot whatsoever. For George Wendt (Norm), a large man was shown very briefly (less than a second), and then the next photo flashed up – that of an older man holding up a newspaper with “WE WIN” as the banner headline. Wendt’s name was still on the screen, but obviously this wasn’t supposed to be his character. > > Why were Perlman and Wendt slighted (if indeed it is a slight) in this way? > > Note: I’ve noticed this on the most recent versions of _Cheers_ (those with “Rebecca Howe” as opposed to “Diane Chambers”); I don’t know if the earlier versions of the show had this same trait. I believe Perlman’s name was always linked to those legs, rather than a face, in the credits, but I think Wendt at one time had “his” photo displayed longer. hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the “We win” newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details. It was in looking for clarification of the matter, that i stumbled across this post if anyone out there knows the story. I would sure appreaciate it if you could educate me 😕 as to the facts thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Biffer\_Spice\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@Biffer\_Spice\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffer_Spice_1)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/25 "2011-08-26T08:36:12Z")
OP - are you George Wendt? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/26 "2011-08-26T10:04:58Z")
> [@Tamex](#): > > I thought that showing legs near Rhea Perlman’s name indicated that the character was sexy and perhaps a bit mysterious (or, at least, she thought of herself that way!) It doesn’t seem that insulting at all. This is what I’ve always assumed. Carla didn’t get a face because she got a sexy pair of legs instead. Makes perfect sense actually. One thing I have always noticed though is that the final guy (the think man holding up the class) looks a lot like Niles from “Frasier.” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/27 "2011-08-26T12:42:37Z")
The question is based upon the assumption that the credits were designed to appear over pictures of people who represented the actors being credited. Occam’s Razor says it simply may be that no connection between the names and the pictures was intended; they just picked photos they liked and put them into the montage, then added the names later. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/28 "2011-08-26T13:02:11Z")
I’ve always thought that the green dress on Sexy-Legs Woman was similar to some of the dresses that Carla wore for special occasions: short, tight, a little wacky. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/29 "2011-08-26T13:25:00Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The question is based upon the assumption that the credits were designed to appear over pictures of people who represented the actors being credited. Occam’s Razor says it simply may be that no connection between the names and the pictures was intended; they just picked photos they liked and put them into the montage, then added the names later. What does Occam’s Razor say about the fact that Woody’s picture is an almost perfect likeness of the real Woody Harrelson? No, it’s quite clear the images are meant to evoke the actors they’re paired with. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/30 "2011-08-26T13:35:14Z")
I am pretty sure that, background pictures notwithstanding, George Wendt was getting excellent billing, almost as good as Danson and Long, by being placed last, after the “and”. That is the name that you remember as the credits end, and I am pretty sure it is a billing slot that actors fight to get. It seems as though, originally, Danson, Long and Wendt were considered the stars and the other characters were expected to be relatively minor. As the show developed, however, it became more of an ensemble, with Karla, Cliff and Coach (and later additions, like Frasier and Woody) becoming much more prominent. Other significant early characters, like Sumner Sloan, faded out quickly. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the original plan was that Cliff would only appear in a couple of early episodes, and was not planned as a continuing character at all. Another point about George Wendt’s billing: I always notice that just as the song ends with the line “You want to go where everybody knows your name,” the words “and George Wendt” appear on the screen. I do not know whether this was intentional, but it always struck me as rather a neat pun, and it makes the George Wendt name even more noticeable than it is simply in virtue of being last, after the “and”. In sum, no way is Wendt being slighted in the billing. If anything the rest of the cast is being slighted relative to him. He gets better billing than is warranted by his character’s importance to the ensemble. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/31 "2011-08-26T13:36:29Z")
Old thread, but what the hell. Here’s another vote for “it’s what they had.” A lot of decisions in creative fields are based on getting things done within deadline and budget. My guess is that someone got an idea of using old-timey images for the opening and they saw a few photos that were analogous to some of the characters. They used those ones and then rather than send out for additional libraries of vintage photos, they moved on to the next job. So Rhea P is a pair of legs, rather than a short, older, working class, barmaid. It’s easier to find an old-timey picture of a pair of legs. Time and money. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/32 "2011-08-26T13:41:48Z")
> [@Goose68](#): > > hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the “We win” newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details. Most likely the reference here is to the character “Coach” Ernie Pantuso, played by Nicholas Colasanto, who died in 1985 after the third season of Cheers. There is a photograph of Geronimo on the set that can be often seen in shots that represents both the character and the actor. In the very last scene of the final episode, as Ted Danson walks to the back of the bar he straightens the photo. It’s possible that the “We win” guy is somehow tied into that but I don’t think so. That was there before he died. ---
**Author:** ![LaurenIpsum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7993a0/32.png) [@LaurenIpsum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LaurenIpsum)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/33 "2011-08-26T13:46:01Z")
I believe George Wendt’s “picture” was given at least a few seconds more time in the first couple of seasons. At that point, John Ratzenberger, Kelsey Grammer and Bebe Neuwirth were not in the opening credits, so they had more time for each person. Plus, when Kirstie Alley joined, she had a separate credit screen (as opposed to the shared screen that Ted Danson & Shelley long got) so now they had to squeeze in a lot more in the same amount of time. As for why only Wendt’s part got trimmed, I’m not really sure, but I do know that he had more in the early seasons. BTW, I have a set of books I got at a library used-book sale many years ago called “This Fabulous Century.” It was from 1970 and the idea was to have a separate book for each decade, although 1870-1900 got lumped together. In one of those books, I believe the 1870-1900 one, I saw several of the images from the Cheers credits, including the Kirstie Alley and Woody Harrelson ones. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/34 "2011-08-26T13:55:31Z")
> [@Biffer\_Spice](#): > > OP - are you George Wendt? No wonder we never got to see inside Barad-Dur. The Dark Lord was Norm! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/35 "2011-08-26T14:15:47Z")
Keep in mind this thread is nearly a decade old. It was bumped to ask about the “Coach” question. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/36 "2011-08-26T20:44:49Z")
I knew exactly what the OP was going to be about the second I saw the thread title (and no, I did not see this thread when it was first started). I used to wonder the same thing every time I watched Cheers and I could swear I read that the placement of the photos was completely unintentional. I know that’s not very helpful without a cite, but just my .02 to go along with \*\*Reality Chuck’s \*\*theory. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/37 "2011-08-26T21:19:09Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Keep in mind this thread is nearly a decade old. It was bumped to ask about the “Coach” question. **Sauron** ’s kid is nine now! ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/38 "2011-08-27T00:26:04Z")
Is it my imagination, or did the first appearance of Cliff portray him as an annoying know it all who actually did know some obscure facts as opposed to him later being just full of BS? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/39 "2011-08-27T00:54:35Z")
YouTube to the rescue! Here’s the [original opening for Cheers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCe7aITZvJc). It’s 63 seconds long, with the credits starting 30 seconds in. Danson/Long comes first – on-screen 4 seconds Nicolas Colasanto, Rhea Perlman and George Wendt each get three seconds. Note that there’s absolutely no relationship between the Danson/Long and Colosanto credits and the images behind the names. Rhea Perlman is backed by the green dress and legs, and the image behind George Wendt’s name shifts from the portly man to the “We Win” bartender midway through. Now here’s the [opening from the final episode](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEhiNpyc2Ks). It’s a tad shorter (about 61 seconds), and of course, there are more names – each is featured for 2 seconds instead of the original 3. Notice, however, that while Danson, Kirstie Alley, Woody Harrelson, John Ratzenberger and Kelsey Grammer (also Bebe Neuwerth when she was in the opening credits) now are backed by images that look like their characters, the backgrounds for Rhea Perlman and George Wendt are still the same. It looks as if originally there wasn’t any relationship intended between the stars’ names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence. As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt. **sh1bu1** Yes, Cliff was originally written as a guy who knew weird stuff, but as his character was expanded, so were the BS and weirdness factors. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/40 "2011-08-27T01:27:18Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > It looks as if originally there wasn’t any relationship intended between the stars’ names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence. Not sure I agree. The Danson/Long image, after all, is a young man and a young woman, and the George Wendt image I believe looks too much like Wendt to be a coincidence. The Colasanto image is the worst match. Curiously enough, the _second_ Wendt image–the “WE WIN” guy they cut to, while Wendt’s name is still on the screen–would have been a much better Colasanto match. He’s even wearing a white shirt and tie, and the “WE WIN” headline evokes sports. In fact, until I saw the video, I was sure that “WE WIN” originally _had_ been the Colasanto match. But no. > [@kunilou](#): > > As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt. I would say, as the series went on, they got _better_ about matching the images and characters. But I believe the idea was there from the beginning. I have one more question–who were “WE”, and what did we “WIN”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366.md?page=3)