# Question about opening credits of "Cheers" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366 "2002-05-10T20:54:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/41 "2011-08-27T01:27:30Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > It looks as if originally there wasn’t any relationship intended between the stars’ names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence. As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt. I agree there’s no clear intention of a matchup in the season one credits, while there’s an obvious intended matchup in the last season’s credits. But I don’t think they failed to re-edit Perlman and Wendt. I think they decided Perlman’s picture was the right one to use, and they were loathe to get rid of the “we win” picture because they felt it was somehow an iconic part of the credits. So they kept the Wendt/large character, but went ahead and cut away to get the “we win” guy in as well. Perhaps they told themselves both pictures represent aspects of Norm in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/42 "2011-08-27T02:38:16Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Not sure I agree. The Danson/Long image, after all, is a young man and a young woman, and the George Wendt image I believe looks too much like Wendt to be a coincidence. I think you’re reading too much into it. For one thing, the scene behind the original Danson/Long shared billing was two young men and a young woman. Colasanto’s credit comes on after the background changes from a shot of a single bartender to a wider shot of the customers and a bartender. There was really no connection (at least not originally) between Perlman’s waitress and the woman customer’s legs, and the very final credit (“Created by”) settles on a single man instead of a trio, which would have fit Charles/Charles/Burrows better. I honestly believe the creative process was a) put a bunch of old photos together b) realize there’s a resemblence in the Wendt photo and c) decide to work from there as new people were added to the credits. Wow. I’ve spent way too much time on this! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/43 "2011-08-27T02:49:46Z")
I think the Rhea Perlman legs are appropriate as the woman in the picture is flanked by men, wearing a “short” dress. It offers the suggestion that this could be a woman of questionable repute. And I’m actually ashamed to admit that I never noticed that these images all came from different pictures and different eras. Apparently I just never paid attention to the fact that some of the images are photos while others are paintings. I assumed it was just the camera panning over an old-time image of a bar. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/44 "2011-08-27T03:04:33Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I think the Rhea Perlman legs are appropriate as the woman in the picture is flanked by men, wearing a “short” dress. It offers the suggestion that this could be a woman of questionable repute. Exactly. While it was down played later, the earlier episodes made Carla seem more trampy. Not Mona from Who’s the Boss trampy but enough that I think the legs fit. Later they played up her toughness instead. ---
**Author:** ![Tamex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/45 "2011-08-27T13:35:22Z")
> [@Goose68](#): > > hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the “We win” newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details. It was in looking for clarification of the matter, that i stumbled across this post if anyone out there knows the story. I would sure appreaciate it if you could educate me 😕 as to the facts thanks. According to the FAQ for Cheers on IMDB, “WE WIN” refers to the end of Prohibition. Is Ted Danson claiming this is an actual photograph of a person who worked on the show? ---
**Author:** ![Snake\_Plissken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@Snake\_Plissken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snake_Plissken)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/46 "2011-08-27T14:19:13Z")
I remember seeing this pic on Shorpy. Great site. [Cheers: 1937 | Shorpy Old Photos | Framed Prints](http://www.shorpy.com/node/7798) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/47 "2011-08-27T15:47:32Z")
> [@Tamex](#): > > According to the FAQ for Cheers on IMDB, “WE WIN” refers to the end of Prohibition. I don’t think so. On this [blow-up of the image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_kAYCyMLFxEM/Sq_IrACDUrI/AAAAAAAAAuc/1Fij6FQCTLE/s400/we_win_cheers1.jpg), the second line in the headline on the lower right says, “As Cards Lose to B . . .” (either Bucs or Braves?) I think it’s a baseball headline. Somebody clinched the National League pennant when their team won while St. Louis was losing. From a quick search of Retrosheet I haven’t been able to track down the NL pennant race that would fit the scenario. ---
**Author:** ![norvalnormal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@norvalnormal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norvalnormal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/48 "2011-08-27T22:44:42Z")
In his 1983 autobiographical _Where Have I Been?_ Sid Caesar took the obligatory swipe at “television these days” and mentioned that he was highly insulted, as a former titan of the medium, to be offered a recurring role as a barfly in the new sitcom _Cheers_ (which he mentioned by name, I am pretty sure). Dunno whether this was proto-Norm or a Cliff-like character but if he’d gone for it, in all likelihood, nowadays he’d be better remembered for this series run than for the landmark _Your Show of Shows_?? ---
**Author:** ![williamweigand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b3f665/32.png) [@williamweigand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williamweigand)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2011, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/49 "2011-08-29T13:52:46Z")
I thought the thread was going to be about the coincidence of the singer singing “you wanna go” followed by “George Wendt” - George went - get it? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/50 "2011-08-30T15:44:52Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > I think you’re reading too much into it. For one thing, the scene behind the original Danson/Long shared billing was two young men and a young woman. Colasanto’s credit comes on after the background changes from a shot of a single bartender to a wider shot of the customers and a bartender. There was really no connection (at least not originally) between Perlman’s waitress and the woman customer’s legs, and the very final credit (“Created by”) settles on a single man instead of a trio, which would have fit Charles/Charles/Burrows better. > > I honestly believe the creative process was a) put a bunch of old photos together b) realize there’s a resemblence in the Wendt photo and c) decide to work from there as new people were added to the credits. > > Wow. I’ve spent way too much time on this! And I for one thank you, because this means I didn’t have to do it. Aw, who am I kidding? I wouldn’t have done it anyway. I think you have pretty much nailed it. Might I add that in the original credits, the Ted Danson, Shelley Long photo clearly shows customers, thus it cannot refer to Sam and Diane. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/51 "2011-09-22T19:20:08Z")
Hello Zombie Thread! Just so you guys know I saw this and when I read that we had a 6 week old baby at our house I did a double take! When did THAT happen and where the hell was I? Good thing I noticed the date or Sauron would have had a heap of explaining to do when he gets home tonight. And yes…the 6 week old baby referenced is now 9 AND we have a 3 year old …but no 6 week olds…THAT I KNOW ABOUT. :o) ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/52 "2011-09-23T06:42:31Z")
> [@Biffer\_Spice](#): > > OP - are you George Wendt? This is the funniest thing I have read for a long time! I just love the idea that George Wendt felt _so_ slighted by some subtle aspect of his credit in some 1980s sitcom that _twenty years later_ he felt the need to register under a pseudonym on some Internet message board to vociferously argue how unfair it was, immediately dismissing all other users’ explanations about how the style of his credit was not actually crafted in bad faith… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![salb222](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@salb222](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salb222)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/53 "2011-10-09T01:03:31Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > YouTube to the rescue! > > Here’s the [original opening for Cheers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCe7aITZvJc). It’s 63 seconds long, with the credits starting 30 seconds in. > > Now here’s the [opening from the final episode](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEhiNpyc2Ks). It’s a tad shorter (about 61 seconds), and of course, there are more names – each is featured for 2 seconds instead of the original 3. I read/scanned most of everyone’s comments and have some thougths and a question. Over the past several months, I’ve been watching all the Cheers espisodes in the order that they aired via NetFlix streaming to my TV. I’m up to Season 8 / Episode 20 (#188). OBSERVATON #1: I noticed that the truncated opening credits song did start after Kirsty Alley was brought in (the 5th to 6th season), but the shortened song is not used with EVERY episode thereafter. It seems that some episodes have the full song version of the credits, while other episodes the song/credits are the shorter version. And they’re not used in any particular order. OBSERVATON #2: I also noticed that the first few scenes of the credits are of “cartoon” (drawn) people, and then switch to “real” people (photos) when the actual stars names start appearing in the credits. QUESTION: So, here’s my question, at the very beginning of the full song version of the credits, a bearded man with a hat in what looks like a blue denim jacket and blue jeans appears near the top of the stairs, standing under (to the right of) the Cheers sign. The scene actually begins to zoom in on him in particular, but then switches to the next scene within the credits. Does anyone know the significance of who that character may be? Is he a represenation of real person that’s integral to the show (perhaps behind the scenes)? He may be no one at all and just part of the overall credit pictures. However, it’s kinda eery after you’ve been watching all the episodes as many times as I have almost each day or several per week. Just curious if anyone knows anything about that guy? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2011, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/54 "2011-10-09T10:39:41Z")
> [@salb222](#): > > OBSERVATON #1: I noticed that the truncated opening credits song did start after Kirsty Alley was brought in (the 5th to 6th season), but the shortened song is not used with EVERY episode thereafter. It seems that some episodes have the full song version of the credits, while other episodes the song/credits are the shorter version. And they’re not used in any particular order. This isn’t unusual for television shows in general. Shows (at least in North America) are usually given a time slot which is some multiple of half hours, a certain number of seconds of which will be pre-allocated to advertisements and station identification. The remaining time needs to be filled by the show itself. One of the easiest things they can do to make up for a short- or long-running episode is to expand or cut, respectively, the credits. This is particularly evident on _The Simpsons_, where the standard opening sequence is often cut (particularly in syndication, where more minutes are allocated to advertisements), and the creators have a large archive of couch gags of various lengths which can be selected to fit the time slot. ---
**Author:** ![wrblues32816](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@wrblues32816](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wrblues32816)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/55 "2011-12-23T22:35:05Z")
Alternatively, those photos are likely during prohibition between 1920 - 1933. Not sure if a lot of “speakeasies” wanted proof of their existence. Whether that is true or not, photos of this time period that are needed to be so specific in nature might not be that easy to find especially in good quality. So the lack of photos to represent might be few. They took what they could get. Also, with WWI, the great depression & WWII looming over the horizon, and just plain time, a lot could have been lost, destroyed or redistribution of resources kept a lot of photos from surviving making an even smaller pool to choose photos for use. imo ---
**Author:** ![Guthers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@Guthers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guthers)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/56 "2013-06-29T01:07:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > One thing I have always noticed though is that the final guy (the think man holding up the class) looks a lot like Niles from “Frasier.” I always thought he looked a bit like Stan Laurel, at least the facial expression. But then I always assumed the “WE WIN” referred to the end of prohibition, but now I’m not so sure. As the thread, and the Aries28/Sauron child enter their second decade…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/57 "2013-06-29T03:55:19Z")
Fooled again! I read about a paragraph of the OP before I realized this was a zombie. I remember the topic from 2002. Man, I’m getting old. Zombie! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/58 "2013-06-30T02:13:55Z")
I always thought the pictures followed the bar’s history through the years, progressively becoming less and less old-timey until they reached the end of WWII with “WE WIN!”—probably the last time the country was united in a way we’d want to remember. The whole meaning of the theme song was community, to the point of being someplace where everyone knew your name. It seems a bit odd if it does reference the end of Prohibition (something like “HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!” would have been more appropriate). It might reference winning the pennant or World Series, I suppose, but that would hardly be something that appealed to the nation at large. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/59 "2013-06-30T02:15:59Z")
> [@Guthers](#): > > I always thought he looked a bit like Stan Laurel. I’ve always thought he just represented the proverbial “everyman,” and could have been either you or me. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366/60 "2013-06-30T23:35:11Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > This is the funniest thing I have read for a long time! I just love the idea that George Wendt felt _so_ slighted by some subtle aspect of his credit in some 1980s sitcom that _twenty years later_ he felt the need to register under a pseudonym on some Internet message board to vociferously argue how unfair it was, immediately dismissing all other users’ explanations about how the style of his credit was not actually crafted in bad faith… 😃 Same here. It made me laugh, lo all these years later… 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-opening-credits-of-cheers/108366.md?page=4)