# Question about Penn State frat murder investigation **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639 "2017-08-14T15:42:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/1 "2017-08-14T15:42:27Z")
This has been in the news and one of the latest headlines is that the judge has ordered that the frat advisor be questioned. This makes sense to me but I read that one of the defense attorneys is saying how it will shed light on the incident and how the frat brothers were really just following orders. This guy should be questioned and charged if necessary. My question to the attorneys or anyone that knows how this works is, could this result in lesser charges for the frat members involved? I find this hard to believe, these guys are in college, so I’m guessing they’re between 18-21 years old and not one of them had the common sense or decency to say, no, this is wrong, this guy needs medical attrntion. My other question is for anyone that’s been a member of a frat or sorority. Is the culture that tight and the pledge that big of a deal that it’s a common occurrence to go against common sense and logic and simply follow orders and do what you are told? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/2 "2017-08-14T16:07:41Z")
Since the second question in particular calls for opinion, let’s move this to IHMO for now. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/3 "2017-08-14T16:39:59Z")
Reading [this article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/08/12/in-penn-state-hazing-death-case-spotlight-turns-to-frat-adviser-deemed-captain-of-the-ship/?utm_term=.c76ee2f3abdb), it doesn’t sound like anyone is claiming the advisor ordered the hazing to continue, but that he was aware of it and didn’t try to prevent it: > [@](#): > > When the members of Beta Theta Pi brought an unconscious, corpse-like Timothy Piazza up a flight of basement stairs on Feb. 2, their resident adviser took a look at the drunken spectacle, then turned around and went back to his room, a lead investigator told a court this week, according to the Associated Press. I was in a fraternity 30 years ago. To answer your second question, no, there was nothing hierarchical about the fraternity - all members were equal. Any brother attempting to give an order to another brother would be laughed at, and depending how obnoxious he got about it, might find something unpleasant in his bed later on. We didn’t have an advisor at the time, but from what I understand from current residents of my old fraternity, it’s not the advisor’s role to be in charge, it’s to advise - to make sure the guys running the place aren’t screwing up, and to help with issues too large for the members to deal with. If the above statement is true, it sounds like he completely dropped the ball on that. I think the fraternity members are trying to argue some kind of diminished responsibility angle - since the advisor saw what was going on and didn’t do anything about it, they thought it was OK. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/4 "2017-08-14T16:54:21Z")
“Did you order the Soggy Biscuit?” “YOU’RE GODDAMN RIGHT I DID!” _\_ ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/5 "2017-08-14T19:45:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Since the second question in particular calls for opinion, let’s move this to IHMO for now. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Thanks, wasn’t quite sure since I was looking for some facts and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/6 "2017-08-14T19:47:01Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Reading [this article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/08/12/in-penn-state-hazing-death-case-spotlight-turns-to-frat-adviser-deemed-captain-of-the-ship/?utm_term=.c76ee2f3abdb), it doesn’t sound like anyone is claiming the advisor ordered the hazing to continue, but that he was aware of it and didn’t try to prevent it: > > I was in a fraternity 30 years ago. To answer your second question, no, there was nothing hierarchical about the fraternity - all members were equal. Any brother attempting to give an order to another brother would be laughed at, and depending how obnoxious he got about it, might find something unpleasant in his bed later on. > > We didn’t have an advisor at the time, but from what I understand from current residents of my old fraternity, it’s not the advisor’s role to be in charge, it’s to advise - to make sure the guys running the place aren’t screwing up, and to help with issues too large for the members to deal with. If the above statement is true, it sounds like he completely dropped the ball on that. I think the fraternity members are trying to argue some kind of diminished responsibility angle - since the advisor saw what was going on and didn’t do anything about it, they thought it was OK. Thanks, that was a great link and helps answer my second question. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/7 "2017-11-14T04:14:43Z")
Updating this thread: > [@](#): > > New charges have been filed in the death of a Pennsylvania State University student after video from a basement security camera was recovered by law enforcement officers. > > Fraternity brothers led police to believe the basement cameras weren’t working on bid acceptance night, according to Centre County, Pa., District Attorney Stacy Parks Miller, who announced additional charges against 17 defendants Monday. But State College police found evidence that the basement camera footage had been manually deleted just as officers were about to seize the recording equipment, she said. FBI agents were able to recover video from the deleted hard drive, which showed the fraternity members requiring pledges to drink beer, wine and vodka in the basement, prosecutors said. > > Timothy Piazza did not get his own drink at any point, they said, but based on the video, **he was given at least 18 drinks in less than an hour and a half.** > **[New charges brought in Penn State hazing death after deleted video is recovered](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/11/13/new-charges-brought-in-penn-state-hazing-death-after-deleted-video-is-recovered/)** > > Prosecutors claim video — which they said former fraternity members tried to delete — shows a pledge being given 18 drinks in less than an hour and a half. **at least 18 drinks in less than an hour and a half!** It is not at all surprising he ended up dead. These scum need to be sentenced to serious hard time. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-penn-state-frat-murder-investigation/793639/8 "2017-11-14T05:52:28Z")
Oh wait a minute. This was a Beta Theta Pi house? Yeah, those jerks. When I was a student at Berkeley 40-some years ago, I lived in a co-op house with a Beta house just across the street. They had a bad reputation for being a bunch of rowdy trouble-making Animal House jackasses. Word was, the Betas everywhere were like that. They used to sneak into our house and pull the fire alarms at inopportune hours. We used to sing (to the tune of “Clementine”): _[First voice:]_ I’m an asshole! _[Second voice:]_ I’m an asshole! _[Third voice:]_ I’m an asshole! _[Fourth voice:]_ So am I! _[All together:]_ But I’d rather be an asshole Than a Beta Theta Pi.