# Question About Poker on TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064 "2004-11-16T15:10:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/1 "2004-11-16T15:10:12Z")
I’m sure many of you niticed that poker is televised on numerous networks. Most often, Texas Hold 'Em is the game of choice. Cameras are placed so that the viewing audience can see a player’s hole cards. Usually, after the 1st round of play, each player’s probability of winning the hand is shown. My question is: Do these probabilities reflect the cards of all of the players, or are they based on an individual player’s perspective? For example, assume that there are 9 players at a table. 7 players fold pre-flop. 2 players are left after the flop. Player A has 2 Queens in the hole. Player B has 2 Jacks in the hole. The flop comes out Q J J. Now Player A needs the last Queen to come out on either of the last 2 cards to win. But we may already know that Player C, who has already folded, had the last Queen. In that case, Player A has no chance of winning, or a probability of 0%, should both players stay in until the end. But from Player A’s perspective, he still has a slight chance of winning since he has no idea about Player C’s folded Queen. So to him, the probability of winning is (1/31) + (1/30) or 6.56%. The example I gave is rare. If it occurred, it would be easy to figure out the answer to my question. But most poker situations are more complex. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/2 "2004-11-16T15:23:40Z")
Not exactly what you asked, but I read an interview with Van Patton, one of the announcers on the Travel Channel’s show, and he said that they edit in about half of their commentary after the fact. So I believe the odds shown are given all of their knowledge, including the down cards that are shown. Of course Travel Channel doesn’t always show odds (but they do on ESPN). My _assumption_ is that ESPN does the same thing, editing after the fact to show hand odds based on known information (to the quasi-omnipotent viewer) after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/3 "2004-11-16T15:24:36Z")
As I think back, I’m sure that the odds shown reflect the odds WITHOUT considering what the other players at the table had. While I’ve never heard them actually say that, two things. . . 1. I know a lot of the odds (without considering other hands) by heart, and they always show them to be what I expect them to be. 2. As far as my viewing has indicated, the players don’t even expose their cards to the camera unless they stays in the hand. ---
**Author:** ![daffyduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@daffyduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daffyduck)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/4 "2004-11-16T15:55:05Z")
It depends on the show and the hands. I have heard comments both ways from commentators. “Normally the odds would be X but we know that So and So folded the last Queen so that means So and Such is drawing dead.” “A pair of pocket sixes with three over cards on the flop will win the pot only X percent of the time.” ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/5 "2004-11-16T16:04:31Z")
Apropos of nothing, I heard on the news yesterday that Yevgeny Kafelnikov, is [leaving tennis for pro poker](http://sports.yahoo.com/ten/news;_ylc=X3oDMTBpNDU1cml1BF9TAzk1ODYyNTg0BHNlYwN0aA--?slug=ap-kafelnikovretires&prov=ap&type=lgns). > [@](#): > > `I have retired,’’ the former No. 1 player said in Monday’s Independent newspaper. ``But I have not officially announced it yet. Some people still think I am just taking a break, but I believe that my time in tennis has gone by. Even if I came back, I would have no chance to play at the level I was.’’ > > The 30-year-old Russian hasn’t played since losing in the second round of the St. Petersburg Open in October 2003. He’s previously been ranked #1 and won 2 grand slams. ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-poker-on-tv/275064/6 "2004-11-16T16:36:28Z")
I can’t find a precise cite for your question, but it is something that has been discussed on poker message boards for some time. The Travel Chanell does take into account all known dead cards on its World Poker Tour series. ESPN, it appears, using back of the napkin type math, does not. For example, if you play poker often, or if you use a website like [www.twodimes.net](http://www.twodimes.net), you can figure out the odds yourself. When I was watching ESPN I entered some hands in there and found that the odds were only considering the cards of the live players, and did not include cards known to be dead.