# Question about Southern Cuisine **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** food-cooking\ **Created:** [February 5, 2025, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899 "2025-02-05T01:59:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/1 "2025-02-05T01:59:37Z")
I just saw Chef Gordon Ramsay making Mac and Cheese in a New Orleans restaurant. Looked to me like the “macaroni” was spaghetti or linguine, not the stuff you’d get from Kraft or Annie’s. Is this common down South? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/2 "2025-02-05T02:14:41Z")
Not in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/3 "2025-02-05T02:17:28Z")
It seems to be a _Nawlins_ thing, rather than a Southern thing: > **[New Orleans Baked Mac and Cheese - Kenneth Temple](https://kennethtemple.com/new-orleans-baked-mac-and-cheese/)** > > This New Orleans Cheesy Baked Mac and Cheese, also known as baked spaghetti, is coated in a creamy cheese sauce and baked to golden-brown perfection. > Unless you grew up in New Orleans, you might have already noticed a distinct difference between this mac and cheese and the kind you’re used to. Instead of elbow noodles or shells, I use spaghetti noodles for my mac and cheese. And it’s not just me; this is how we do it in New Orleans! ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/4 "2025-02-05T03:47:33Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > It seems to be a _Nawlins_ thing, rather than a Southern thing I never knew it was strictly local to this area (New Orleans metro). I thought it was a known variation. Around here, on a holiday table, baked “macaroni” made with spaghetti noodles is common enough, though not necessarily the default. I think doing it traditionally with elbow macaroni is at least as common. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/5 "2025-02-05T04:22:13Z")
When I was a kid plain macaroni and cheese was made using the boxed Kraft stuff. Homemade was “macoroni pie”, which includes eggs and is more cake-like in texture. Those were made with elbow macaroni or shell pasta, and is food of the gods. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/6 "2025-02-05T17:21:39Z")
First time ever hearing of it. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/7 "2025-02-05T17:25:09Z")
Sounds good! I’ll have to give it a try. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/8 "2025-02-05T17:46:37Z")
Strange they would call it “MAC” & cheese since mac refers to macaroni which is a specific type of noodle. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/9 "2025-02-05T18:19:24Z")
What’s the story on how this tradition started? The story I grew up with is that Mac and cheese came to the US from France, when it was brought over in the 18th century by Thomas Jefferson. Spaghetti, as far as I understand, came over with Italian immigrants in the late 19th / early 20th century, and AFAIK New Orleans wasn’t a major destination for those immigrants. So how did this end up being a NoLa tradition? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/10 "2025-02-05T18:20:52Z")
Macaroni is just one type of pasta. Same ingredients and cooked the same way, but produced in tubes instead of long strings. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/11 "2025-02-05T18:23:22Z")
Come to Providence and ask people what macaroni is. I’ll give you a hint, a significant portion of them will tell you it’s spaghetti or any other form of pasta. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/12 "2025-02-05T18:24:04Z")
New Orleans was a major port of entry for Italian immigrants in the late 19th century. The first recorded use of the word “Mafia” in the US was in a New Orleans newspaper around 1890. (IIRC, this was noted in Nick Tosches’ biography of Dean Martin, but I’d need to check to make sure.) ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/13 "2025-02-05T18:27:34Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Macaroni is just one type of pasta. Same ingredients and cooked the same way, but produced in tubes instead of long strings. Right … so would it make sense to call a traditional “macaroni and cheese” dish, made with elbow macaroni, “spaghetti and cheese,” just because both macaroni and spaghetti are pasta? Not really. But I suppose “mac and cheese” has come to be associated with a particular set of ingredients/flavors/cooking method, and people think that substituting spaghetti is close enough that they’ll keep the name. Personally, I think that changing the type of pasta used is a big deal, as it changes the texture of a dish (depending on what you’re making, it can also matter for sauce clinginess, though I imagine it doesn’t matter with a baked pasta-roux-cheese dish). ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/14 "2025-02-05T18:30:31Z")
If you’ve watched _ **The Sopranos** _, you’ve heard them call spaghetti “macaroni” and spaghetti sauce “gravy,” both of which are apparently East Coast things (since the show is set in New Jersey). They also butter their cooked spaghetti, something I’d never heard of before. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/15 "2025-02-05T18:33:36Z")
Here is what the [US Government](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-21/chapter-I/subchapter-B/part-139/subpart-B/section-139.110) says macaroni is: > [@](#): > > ## § 139.110 Macaroni products. > > (a) Macaroni products are the class of food each of which is prepared by drying formed units of dough made from semolina, durum flour, farina, flour, or any combination of two or more of these, with water and with or without one or more of the optional ingredients specified in paragraphs (a) (1) to (6), inclusive, of this section. > > … > > (b) Macaroni is the macaroni product the units of which are tube-shaped and more than 0.11 inch but not more than 0.27 inch in diameter. > > (c) Spaghetti is the macaroni product the units of which are tube-shaped or cord-shaped (not tubular) and more than 0.06 inch but not more than 0.11 inch in diameter. > > (d) Vermicelli is the macaroni product the units of which are cord-shaped (not tubular) and not more than 0.06 inch in diameter. > > (e) The name of each food for which a definition and standard of identity is prescribed by this section is “Macaroni product”; or alternatively, the name is “Macaroni”, “Spaghetti”, or “Vermicelli”, as the case may be, when the units of the food are of the shapes and sizes specified in paragraph (b), (c), or (d), respectively, of this section. Spaghetti are macaroni. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/16 "2025-02-05T18:48:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Come to Providence and ask people what macaroni is. I’ll give you a hint, a significant portion of them will tell you it’s spaghetti or any other form of pasta. that’s pretty wild. Does the inverse work too? I mean, if you ask someone what “spaghetti” is, do they think it is any form of pasta also? ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/17 "2025-02-05T18:50:59Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Spaghetti are macaroni. that’s not how I’m reading it. The genus is “macaroni product”, while the differentiated species are “macaroni”, “spaghetti” and “vermicelli”. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/18 "2025-02-05T18:56:43Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > They also butter their cooked spaghetti, something I’d never heard of before. Hmm, I didn’t know buttered spaghetti was a thing, but I will say that as an impoverished college student looking for a cheap and filling snack, I would cook some pasta (any shape) well past al dente and add butter and salt. Yum! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/19 "2025-02-05T18:58:57Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > Strange they would call it “MAC” & cheese since mac refers to macaroni which is a specific type of noodle. Would _you_ want to try “spag and cheese”? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899/20 "2025-02-05T19:22:01Z")
Spaghetti boiled and then sauteed in olive oil and garlic is a common “peasant” dish in Italy. I believe they season it with freshly cracked pepper too. (I knew this before I saw Furio making it on _ **The Sopranos** _.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-southern-cuisine/1013899.md?page=2)