# Question about ST naval terminology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973 "2013-12-10T13:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/21 "2013-12-11T04:52:36Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Then the first thing you learn as an officer on a ship potentially hostile to the Federation is those schedules. So you can plan your attack for when the skilled and experienced crew is sleeping. This is why I’ve always thought it would make a lot more sense to do it at a personal level instead. Every officer that is on feels like it is day time. That said, maybe they can more easily detect “night owls” in the future and assign those to the late shift. Thus there’s no reason they have to be less experienced or less skilled. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/22 "2013-12-11T05:04:14Z")
Living somewhere that never gets dark for months is a health hazard. They have that problem in some Arctic countries. It really screws up people’s biological clocks. They end up awake for 30 hours at a time. Can’t sleep or they just sleep a few hours and then they are awake again for extended periods. Remember the old tv show Northern Exposure? They did an episode on how living without darkness screwed up Doctor Joel Fleischman . ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/23 "2013-12-11T05:50:11Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Always bothered me because on a star ship, _ **there is no down time** _. There isn’t a “night”, there isn’t a time when nothing is possibly going to happen, and conversely, there isn’t a “day time” when everything important is going to happen. > > Now upon arrival at a destination, they may well summon the top crew to the bridge. But that random encounter with the hostile aliens that immediately results in combat? If the captain is sleeping, he’s going to be still getting dressed by the time the battle is over. Or die in his/her bed when the ship gets blown up. > > But like on DS9 where they’re a trading station, again, there is no ‘night’. Quarks would be open around the clock. Ships would be arriving and departing at all hours. You really wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between 2am and 2pm. Even nuclear submarines (and newer long endurance conventional ones like the French/Pakistani Agosta 90b and the German U214) have shipboard time which is different from local time. Usually shipboard time is that of the boats home port while fr US subs it is IIRC GMT. ---
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/24 "2013-12-11T07:48:08Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Living somewhere that never gets dark for months is a health hazard. They have that problem in some Arctic countries. It really screws up people’s biological clocks. They end up awake for 30 hours at a time. Can’t sleep or they just sleep a few hours and then they are awake again for extended periods. That still doesn’t explain why the ships need a night cycle. Picard can go to his quarters and turn off his lights when he’s ready to sleep. Meanwhile the bridge can operate just the same with people who slept during Picard’s shift. I never understood why they dimmed the lights on the bridge for the night shift. Were they all going to take naps at their stations? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/25 "2013-12-11T22:08:23Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > whatever happened to the “bells” system of keeping time on board ship? Is it still used, or has the 24-hour clock replaced it completely? Bells are fully compatible with a 24-hour clock. They are sounded every half hour, and re-start every four hours. They are not regarded as a substitute for the clock. “What time is CO due back aboard?” receives the answer “At fourteen thirty”, not “At five bells in the afternoon watch”. > [@](#): > > I assume that all USN vessels operate on Zulu time. Definitely not the case when I was on one (which admittedly was some time ago). A ship’s company needs the concept of a normal day, including such things as breakfast in the morning, lunch around noon (when the sun is near its zenith), and supper toward evening. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/26 "2013-12-11T22:14:59Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > It’s 500 years in the future with magic technology. Nitpick: 300. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/27 "2013-12-12T01:05:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Read Youtube comments for a while then get back to me about the intellectual level of the American viewing public. 😛 In my experience, Trekfans do not operate on the same intellectual level as the Great American Public. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/28 "2013-12-12T01:09:51Z")
> [@TaoPilot](#): > > That still doesn’t explain why the ships need a night cycle. Picard can go to his quarters and turn off his lights when he’s ready to sleep. Meanwhile the bridge can operate just the same with people who slept during Picard’s shift. > > I never understood why they dimmed the lights on the bridge for the night shift. Were they all going to take naps at their stations? The bridge on _ **Voyager** _ was _always_ dimly lit. The ones on _ **TOS** _ and _ **TNG** _, never! I think it was only in the ships’ corridors that the lights were turned down; depending on their function, individual rooms could be brightly lit or not lit at all. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/29 "2013-12-12T01:13:46Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In my experience, Trekfans do not operate on the same intellectual level as the Great American Public. Higher or lower? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/30 "2013-12-12T01:16:30Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Higher or lower? 😛 You decide, bonnie lad! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/31 "2013-12-12T01:22:49Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Next you’ll be asking how the **Enterprise** manages with the same people on the bridge 24/7. Well, they’re not showing us the times of the day when there’s nothing interesting going on and everything is proceeding according to plan. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/32 "2013-12-12T02:09:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Higher or lower? 😛 Would you care to rephrase that, Laddie? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/33 "2013-12-12T02:32:04Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > Yes, sailors stand watches. A watch is 4 hours long. Six hours on submarines. Most of the crew are in three-section rotation (six hours on watch, six off), though some are in four-section (six on, eighteen off) and the really ‘lucky’ ones are port-and-starboard (six on, six off, or twelve on, twelve off). > [@AK84](#): > > Even nuclear submarines (and newer long endurance conventional ones like the French/Pakistani Agosta 90b and the German U214) have shipboard time which is different from local time. Usually shipboard time is that of the boats home port while fr US subs it is IIRC GMT. We normally stayed on homeport time if we were going to be returning to homeport. When we travelled from Hawaii to Japan (or back) on my first boat, clocks were shifted one hour each day until we were on the same time as our next port. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/34 "2013-12-12T05:21:17Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The bridge on _ **Voyager** _ was _always_ dimly lit. The ones on _ **TOS** _ and _ **TNG** _, never! I think it was only in the ships’ corridors that the lights were turned down; depending on their function, individual rooms could be brightly lit or not lit at all. In the episode “Data’s Day,” the first scene shows Riker relieving Data of command of the bridge at the shift change. After Data hands over command, Riker announces, “Begin day watch!” and the lighting on the bridge brightens. In the last scene at the end of the episode, Data relieves Worf of command of the bridge. After Worf leaves, Data says, “Begin night watch,” and the bridge lights dim significantly. I always thought it made sense to dim the lights gradually toward the end of a shift and brighten them when the new shift starts, but it made no sense at all to have the lights dim for the whole night shift. What possible purpose could it serve but to make the entire crew on that shift groggy and slow? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/35 "2013-12-12T13:29:35Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > In the episode “Data’s Day,” the first scene shows Riker relieving Data of command of the bridge at the shift change. After Data hands over command, Riker announces, “Begin day watch!” and the lighting on the bridge brightens. In the last scene at the end of the episode, Data relieves Worf of command of the bridge. After Worf leaves, Data says, “Begin night watch,” and the bridge lights dim significantly. I always thought it made sense to dim the lights gradually toward the end of a shift and brighten them when the new shift starts, but it made no sense at all to have the lights dim for the whole night shift. What possible purpose could it serve but to make the entire crew on that shift groggy and slow? I missed that one. You’re right; like having children (the ultimate in nonessential personnel) aboard, it makes absolutely no sense. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/36 "2013-12-12T14:14:02Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Next you’ll be asking how the **Enterprise** manages with the same people on the bridge 24/7. > > It’s a TV show. Everything is chosen in service to the _story_. Say to yourself: “It’s a TV show, I should really just relax.” A long time ago, at a convention probably, someone made the point that Starfleet encompasses features of all the earthly militaries. They are star SHIPS, so Navy. They fly, so Air Force. They can invade, so Marines. They can transport an occupation force, so Army. They can bombard or bomb a territory, Army, Air Force, or Navy. They protect and patrol the “shores” of their home planet, so Coast Guard. Sounded reasonable to me. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/37 "2013-12-12T14:44:12Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > A long time ago, at a convention probably, someone made the point that Starfleet encompasses features of all the earthly militaries. They are star SHIPS, so Navy. They fly, so Air Force. They can invade, so Marines. They can transport an occupation force, so Army. They can bombard or bomb a territory, Army, Air Force, or Navy. They protect and patrol the “shores” of their home planet, so Coast Guard. > > Sounded reasonable to me. To continue the Hornblower analogy, I always thought of Star Fleet as being rather like the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/38 "2013-12-12T15:11:08Z")
At the USCG LORAN station I was at, I stood Duty and Watches. Every 3rd day I was the Duty Electronics Technician and was on-call for 24 hours starting at 0600 for any electronics issues. And since the radio was in the LORAN building, I also stood two 6 hour communications watches. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/39 "2013-12-12T15:13:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They are cur-tailed. Yes, they’re arf as long. ---
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/40 "2013-12-14T07:17:53Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I missed that one. You’re right; like having children (the ultimate in nonessential personnel) aboard, it makes absolutely no sense. Even worse than just having children aboard, apparently these children were allowed to roam around the stardrive section. Every time they did a saucer separation, we would see children rushing to get to the saucer section. Seems to me that if you’re going to have children on board, the stardrive section should be off limits so the separation could occur immediately when needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973.md?page=3)