# Question about ST naval terminology **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973 "2013-12-10T13:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AtomicDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@AtomicDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AtomicDog)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/41 "2013-12-14T15:17:26Z")
I assume that the great “let’s have families aboard” experiment ended with the launch of the Sovereign class ships. I assume that families were relegated to starbases and colonies in the starship’s patrol sector. The destruction of the Odyssey by the Dominion should have given Starfleet a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/42 "2013-12-14T17:42:14Z")
That was certainly implied in later iterations of ST. I also prefer the term “watch” to “shift,” due to its nautical heritage, and encourage the players in my ST:TOS-era USS _Yorktown_ role-playing game to use it. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/43 "2013-12-14T18:52:35Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The bridge on _ **Voyager** _ was _always_ dimly lit. The ones on _ **TOS** _ and _ **TNG** _, never! I think it was only in the ships’ corridors that the lights were turned down; depending on their function, individual rooms could be brightly lit or not lit at all. On a ship as large as the Enterprises, you could have everyone on each deck on the same schedule, and have dimming of the corridors appropriate for each deck. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/44 "2013-12-14T20:17:42Z")
There’s no point to the dimming of the lights except for TV Drama. You want bright lights for those people actually on duty so as not to fuck over their circadian rhythm. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/45 "2013-12-14T21:29:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > There’s no point to the dimming of the lights except for TV Drama. > > You want bright lights for those people actually on duty so as not to fuck over their circadian rhythm. You also want to _see_ the damn Klingon boarding party. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/46 "2013-12-14T22:14:19Z")
> [@TaoPilot](#): > > Even worse than just having children aboard, apparently these children were allowed to roam around the stardrive section. Every time they did a saucer separation, we would see children rushing to get to the saucer section. Seems to me that if you’re going to have children on board, the stardrive section should be off limits so the separation could occur immediately when needed. When TNG was in the planning stages saucer separations were originally intended to be standard operating procedure whenever the ship was in danger or had a more military mission. The special effects proved to be too expensive so it only used a few times over the series. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2013, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/47 "2013-12-14T22:46:01Z")
Which makes perfect sense :rolleyes: “Um, hostile vessels, could you hold off while we send this completely vulnerable chunk of our ship containing children and non-combatants out of harms way?” ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/48 "2013-12-15T02:01:47Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which makes perfect sense :rolleyes: > > “Um, hostile vessels, could you hold off while we send this completely vulnerable chunk of our ship containing children and non-combatants out of harms way?” This idiocy is not limited to the 23rd century! When my husband was stationed in Germany, the dependents had to participate in an exercise called “NEO.” That stands for “Noncombatant Evacuation Order.” You REALLY are not gonna believe this! The military would supposedly take possession of all POVs (privately-owned vehicles) and load them up with dependents, and they would travel in a huge convoy to a military air base or even a civilian airport, where chartered planes would take the dependents back to the United States. Uh-huh. And the Bad Guys would keep their dirty hands and armaments completely OFF the family members. No blowing up the convoy, no shooting down the chartered planes. Yeah. :rolleyes: ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/49 "2013-12-15T02:16:39Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Which makes perfect sense :rolleyes: > > “Um, hostile vessels, could you hold off while we send this completely vulnerable chunk of our ship containing children and non-combatants out of harms way?” On impulse power, no less. Assuming they did manage to get away unscathed, they’d be dead long before they ever reached a Star Base unless they managed to rendezvous with another friendly vessel. Stupid idea piled on stupid idea, piled on stupid idea! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/50 "2013-12-15T02:20:42Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > A long time ago, at a convention probably, someone made the point that Starfleet encompasses features of all the earthly militaries. They are star SHIPS, so Navy. They fly, so Air Force. They can invade, so Marines. They can transport an occupation force, so Army. They can bombard or bomb a territory, Army, Air Force, or Navy. They protect and patrol the “shores” of their home planet, so Coast Guard. > > Sounded reasonable to me. Don’t soldiers, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and yes, even merchant sailors also stand _watches_? 😕 :dubious: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/51 "2013-12-15T02:28:10Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > When TNG was in the planning stages saucer separations were originally intended to be standard operating procedure whenever the ship was in danger or had a more military mission. The special effects proved to be too expensive so it only used a few times over the series. Not only that, they were a complete waste of valuable storytelling time, and the whole procedure just looked ridiculous. Whenever they tried to redock after an “emergency,” I was reminded of the “parasite fighter” concept, which also turned out to be a miserable failure: [http://www.unrealaircraft.com/forever/forever.php](http://www.unrealaircraft.com/forever/forever.php) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/52 "2013-12-15T02:31:37Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Don’t soldiers, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and yes, even merchant sailors also stand _watches_? 😕 :dubious: :rolleyes: Roll eyes yourself. None of those are Starfleet, which is a fictional mix of ideas. And Starfleet is not EXACTLY analogous to any current military branch. Besides, I was simply relating what I remember hearing. :rolleyes: indeed ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/53 "2013-12-15T02:35:09Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Roll eyes yourself. None of those are Starfleet, which is a fictional mix of ideas. And Starfleet is not EXACTLY analogous to any current military branch. In _ **TNG** _, Starfleet was hardly analogous to ANY military branch. Let’s face it: The best thing about that series was Marina Sirtis’s incredible rack! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/54 "2013-12-15T02:38:01Z")
I thought Crusher was pretty hot, too. (NOT Wesley!) K’Ehleyr had nice legs. For a half Klingon. . ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/55 "2013-12-15T02:50:11Z")
terentii (and other Trek Dopers), [go here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=710436) for more Trek fun (transporters again). We could make some of the same posts we did the last time this came up. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/56 "2013-12-15T02:52:49Z")
On _ **TNG** _, Lt. Selar is the one I always wanted to spend a few hours on the holodeck with! 🆒 > **[Selar](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Selar)** > > Doctor Selar was a Vulcan Starfleet officer. The lieutenant was a physician on the USS Enterprise-D from 2365 to 2370. In 2365, Selar was part of an away team which responded to a distress call from Gravesworld. Selar was sent instead of Dr.... ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/57 "2013-12-15T02:53:52Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > terentii (and other Trek Dopers), [go here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=710436) for more Trek fun (transporters again). We could make some of the same posts we did the last time this came up. Been there, done that! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/58 "2013-12-15T02:58:46Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > The military would supposedly take possession of all POVs (privately-owned vehicles) and load them up with dependents, and they would travel in a huge convoy to a military air base or even a civilian airport, where chartered planes would take the dependents back to the United States. Some military guys would be getting killed, fighting a delaying action for the families to get away. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/59 "2013-12-15T03:42:25Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > In _ **TNG** _, Starfleet was hardly analogous to ANY military branch. > > Let’s face it: The best thing about that series was Marina Sirtis’s incredible rack! 🆒 I believe that was discounted by Gene Roddenberry wanting her to have four of them. Or two, if you are counting “racks”. That’s not really much to rate a TV show on. Buy a dirty magazine. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973/60 "2013-12-15T17:35:18Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > On impulse power, no less. Assuming they did manage to get away unscathed, they’d be dead long before they ever reached a Star Base unless they managed to rendezvous with another friendly vessel. > > Stupid idea piled on stupid idea, piled on stupid idea! For the most part a stupid idea, yes. There were a few times when it would have made sense for the saucer section to be separated, like a charge into the Romulan Neutral Zone. Just drop off the saucer near a starbase, then head in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-st-naval-terminology/675973.md?page=4)