# Question about Star Trek canon after the latest movie \[\[edited title; spoilers inside\]\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815 "2010-06-28T18:00:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/1 "2010-06-28T18:00:27Z")
. . . . . . . . . . IIRC destroying Vulcan was pretty controversial. Just curious if the fanbase has fully accepted this development, per the last [movie Star trek (2009)](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)) , as the current canon for the series. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/2 "2010-06-28T18:18:48Z")
The movie is, explicitly, in a different universe. The events of the movie are canonical for that universe - and will be canon for the movie series and movie-related tie-in media. Whether that will be the ONLY Star Trek canon going forward is unknown (but unlikely). It’s not the first persistent parallel - the Mirror and Anti-Matter universes came first, and the specific concept of the many-universe theory was referenced in the TNG episode Parallels, where Worf randomly moved through a group of such. The Prime Universe will continue on, lacking its Spock and Romulus, but having Vulcan. (We just may, or may not, see any further stories set in it.) The new parallel universe will continue on, with two Spocks, some relatively advanced technology, no Vulcan, and a possibility of something happening to Romulus in the future, but possibly not. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/3 "2010-06-28T18:19:28Z")
Well, the last movie created a whole new timeline. So the destruction of Vulcan is only canon in the new universe. If you’re writing a TNG or TOS or DS9 novel, you’re in the original timeline and the destruction of Vulcan never happened. Any future TV shows or movies or books will follow one or the other (or neither, I suppose). So it’s a whole new canon, done explicitly so they can disregard the existing canon. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/4 "2010-06-28T18:26:50Z")
Don’t we usually try to NOT have spoilers in thread titles? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/5 "2010-06-28T18:29:15Z")
I’ve changed the thread title to remove a spoiler for the 2009 movie. The original title was “is the destruction of Vulcan and it’s people now canon for the Star Trek Universe?” ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/6 "2010-06-28T18:45:45Z")
You can still see the spoiler on the mouseover, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/7 "2010-06-28T18:56:42Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > The Prime Universe will continue on, lacking its Spock and Romulus, but having Vulcan. (We just may, or may not, see any further stories set in it.) The new parallel universe will continue on, with two Spocks, some relatively advanced technology, no Vulcan, and a possibility of something happening to Romulus in the future, but possibly not. The Romulans once again getting short shrift is what actually bugs me most about the movie. As (in my opinion), the most interesting antagonist species outside maybe Cardassians, I’m annoyed at how often they’re overlooked or just made to be the butt monkey of the major powers. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/8 "2010-06-28T19:07:07Z")
I’ve accepted it. What choice do I have? TPTB are going to work what they made, so hey, enjoy the ride. Huey Long and Prospero, ya know? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/9 "2010-06-28T19:12:18Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > The Romulans once again getting short shrift is what actually bugs me most about the movie. As (in my opinion), the most interesting antagonist species outside maybe Cardassians, I’m annoyed at how often they’re overlooked or just made to be the butt monkey of the major powers. Roms and Hums should still be like the Soviet and NATO blocks at the 60s level of the cold war. With today’s available screen magic, just about story anyone would want to make about an ongoing conflict would be available to put on screen. Hopefully, TPTB will continue to buck the obese canon and bring us some _interesting_ stories. Maybe some things from the better Trek novels. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/10 "2010-06-28T19:55:46Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Hopefully, TPTB will continue to buck the obese canon and bring us some _interesting_ stories. Maybe some things from the better Trek novels. I’d love to see a TV series based on the New Frontier novels. (As long as they give the captain a better name. I would think that in the 24th century, humanity would have moved beyond dubbing their crotchfruit “MacKenzie.”) ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/11 "2010-06-28T20:19:43Z")
Mac’s name’s not MacKenzie. It’s M’k’n’zy, and he’s Xenexian, not human. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/12 "2010-06-28T21:00:06Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > I’d love to see a TV series based on the New Frontier novels. (As long as they give the captain a better name. I would think that in the 24th century, humanity would have moved beyond dubbing their crotchfruit “MacKenzie.”) Hey, _my_ name is Mackenzie, ya big jerk! ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/13 "2010-06-29T03:39:07Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > The movie is, explicitly, in a different universe. It’s an alternate timeline, not a parallel or mirror universe. Sort of like the episode of TNG with the Enterprise C. Prior to Kirk’s birth the timeline is identical, and the changes made afterwards are the result of an incursion from the TNG time period. I didn’t like the idea of going back to the TOS characters when I heard about it, but having decided to do that, I’m very happy that they made enough changes in the timeline due to the Romulan appearing shortly before Kirk’s birth, and doing crazy shit like blowing up Vulcan, to make it interesting and updated, while still not violating canon. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/14 "2010-06-29T03:56:11Z")
Meh. I thought it was a ploy to lure in armchair Trekkies with CGI and a big battle. I saw it opening day, and I was SURE that J.J. Abrams had a new Star Trek series in the work. The original series redone, but darker, more complicated, and…iunno…lostier? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/15 "2010-06-29T23:32:10Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > It’s an alternate timeline, not a parallel or mirror universe. And further, think about this: with the knowledge acquired in the course of these events, folks in THIS universe now know about the disaster that is coming 200 years hence and can take timely measures to avoid or mitigate the destruction of Romulus… thus negating Nero’s quest for retroactive revenge and… so … this dangling timeline ensures the continued parallel existence of the “normal” TOS universe in its own timeline? 😕 Oy… ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/16 "2010-06-29T23:39:45Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And further, think about this: with the knowledge acquired in the course of these events, folks in THIS universe now know about the disaster that is coming 200 years hence and can take timely measures to avoid or mitigate the destruction of Romulus… thus negating Nero’s quest for retroactive revenge and… so … this dangling timeline ensures the continued parallel existence of the “normal” TOS universe in its own timeline? 😕 > > Oy… The standard trek approach to this seems to be that negating the future circumstances that lead a person to travel backward in time does not negate the fact of their arrival earlier in time, nor their actions. They have crossed over from a timeline that will now never come to pass, (or at least can never be reached from the altered time track,) but they ‘escaped’ that timeline and continue to be real in the new one. Or at least that’s how I interpreted the Tasha Yar plotline on TNG. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/17 "2010-06-30T00:04:14Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > It’s an alternate timeline, not a parallel or mirror universe. Sort of like the episode of TNG with the Enterprise C. Prior to Kirk’s birth the timeline is identical, and the changes made afterwards are the result of an incursion from the TNG time period. An alternate timeline IS a new universe. A la the [Many Worlds Theory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation). ---
**Author:** ![bafaa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@bafaa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bafaa)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/18 "2010-06-30T14:48:55Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Well, the last movie created a whole new timeline. So the destruction of Vulcan is only canon in the new universe. If you’re writing a TNG or TOS or DS9 novel, you’re in the original timeline and the destruction of Vulcan never happened. Any future TV shows or movies or books will follow one or the other (or neither, I suppose). > > So it’s a whole new canon, done explicitly so they can disregard the existing canon. Have any new books been written in the original timeline since the movie came out? Are they still going full steam ahead ignoring the new timeline? Or has all that been put on hold? What about books in the new timeline? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/19 "2010-06-30T15:30:00Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > The standard trek approach to this seems to be that negating the future circumstances that lead a person to travel backward in time does not negate the fact of their arrival earlier in time, nor their actions. They have crossed over from a timeline that will now never come to pass, (or at least can never be reached from the altered time track,) but they ‘escaped’ that timeline and continue to be real in the new one. > > Or at least that’s how I interpreted the Tasha Yar plotline on TNG. Except, of course ,all the times when they screwed that up, too, and did just the opposite. Trek Time travel has the Rules of Plot and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815/20 "2010-06-30T16:27:02Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Except, of course ,all the times when they screwed that up, too, and did just the opposite. Trek Time travel has the Rules of Plot and nothing more. Can you point me to a comparable ‘opposite’ example? 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-star-trek-canon-after-the-latest-movie-edited-title-spoilers-inside/544815.md?page=2)