# Question about stopping the clock in football **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 30, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809 "2008-09-30T03:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/21 "2008-10-01T06:01:59Z")
The real heads up loophole that actually works is this: Throw a long pass for a first down with almost no time left. As soon as the receiver is down by contact, everyone on the team except the guy who caught it and the nearest receiver to him freezes in their tracks regardless of where they are on the field. (Provided they’re behind the new LOS.) The guy who caught the ball sprints to where the ref puts it and becomes the center. The nearest player to him when he went down sprints to become the QB, and he spikes the ball immediately. This is an illegal play (illegal formation) that will not trigger a 10-second runoff, which makes it a perfectly legitimate method to stop the clock. You’ll get a 5-yard penalty, 1st and 15, clock winds after the ref informs the crowd and spots the ball. During the 15 or so seconds of stoppage, the rest of your team sprints up to the new LOS with an audible called and runs a prepared play the moment the clock starts winding again. It is very important that the rest of your team remains motionless during the illegal formation spike. Illegal formation does not trigger a 10 second runoff. False start does. [Cite](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2628616) ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/22 "2008-10-01T08:23:32Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > No, it’s really not. The clock isn’t always moving. Imagine first down is an incomplete pass. Now imagine any number of penalties occuring before the snap on second down. (False start, encroachment, unabated to the QB, delay of game, etc…) None of them stopped an otherwise moving clock because the clock wasn’t moving. It’s either poor parsing on your part or poor phrasing on my part. Please take my sentence, redundancy and all as, “But you originally mentioned penalties that stop an otherwise moving clock, which is every penalty if the clock is moving.” That is, the officials will always wave their hands over their heads if there’s a flag thrown during a play. There’s no penalty that is announced while the clock is running. Regarding your (and Scott Linehan’s) scenario, I would think that the text quoted upthread by **Omni** would cover it (my underlining): > [@](#): > > Article 10 A team is not permitted to conserve time inside of one minute of either half by committing any of the following acts: fouls by either team that prevent the snap (i.e., false start, encroachment, etc.), intentional grounding, an illegal forward pass thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage with the intent to conserve time, throwing a backward pass out of bounds with the intent to conserve time, and any other intentional foul that causes the clock to stop. It seems like Guns Hochuli could have called for a 10 second runoff in that game, had he wanted to. ETA: It really seems like the rule is written to prevent any sort of chicanery to milk extra time out of the clock in a two-minute drill. Perhaps one could get away with it by performing my original scenario, except making sure that there’s a receiver “in the neighborhood” of the lateral that – because the thrower ain’t a quarterback, after all – sails out of bounds by a good 10 yards. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/23 "2008-10-01T09:00:42Z")
Again, my cite demonstrates that Illegal Formation does not carry a 10 second runoff, period. > [@quixotic78](#): > > ETA: It really seems like the rule is written to prevent any sort of chicanery to milk extra time out of the clock in a two-minute drill. Perhaps one could get away with it by performing my original scenario, except making sure that there’s a receiver “in the neighborhood” of the lateral that – because the thrower ain’t a quarterback, after all – sails out of bounds by a good 10 yards. That’s exactly the intent, but Linehan correctly pointed out that under the current rules there is still a loophole that should be closed. Going back to the confusion “does it or doesn’t it stop the clock” confusion, holding calls don’t stop the clock; the play keeps going. False start, OTOH, does stop the clock. That’s why the Illegal Formation loophole is so glaring. It stops the clock just like a false start, but the refs aren’t allowed to run 10 seconds off for it. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/24 "2008-10-01T13:26:12Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > That’s why the Illegal Formation loophole is so glaring. It stops the clock just like a false start, but the refs aren’t allowed to run 10 seconds off for it. Why not? IANAReferee, but I do read regulations for a living on occasion, and sure seems like Illegal Formation would be “any other intentional foul that causes the clock to stop”. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/25 "2008-10-01T21:57:30Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > Again, my cite demonstrates that Illegal Formation does not carry a 10 second runoff, period. It shows nothing of the sort. Your cite shows that the referee did not call a 10 second runoff in that case, and based on that one case, it shows Linehan speculating about a play he thinks he could do. The portion I underlined in the NFL rules shows, to me, that Hochuli missed the call (or chose not to enforce it). Find a cite with Mike Pereira saying what you think your current cite says, and I’ll give you your Linehan scenario. > [@](#): > > Going back to the confusion “does it or doesn’t it stop the clock” confusion, holding calls don’t stop the clock; the play keeps going. False start, OTOH, does stop the clock. After the play is over, a holding call most certainly does stop the clock, giving a hurry-up offense about a dozen seconds to get signals from the sideline. > [@](#): > > That’s why the Illegal Formation loophole is so glaring. It stops the clock just like a false start, but the refs aren’t allowed to run 10 seconds off for it. And I contend that an Illegal Formation penalty _could_ incur the runoff, if the refs deemed that an odd formation was being employed simply to stop the clock. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/26 "2008-10-01T23:35:41Z")
This just happened on Monday night. The illegal formation thing, that is. The Steeler-Ravens game was tied at 20-20. Baltimore just got the ball deep in their own zone with 7 seconds left. The clock was stopped since it was just kicked off. Baltimore just decides to take a knee and play in OT. So they snap the ball and kneel and some jagoff line judge throws a flag for illegal formation. So the confused, annoyed players back up 5 yards while the fans boo the lawyer. They get set to snap it again when the ref blows a whistle. The ref says it’s a 10-second run off so that’s the end of regulation. The whole crowd boos the hell out of his whole crew. So the teams are stretching out and stuff and the music is playing while everyone gets set up to flip the coin. Then the ref comes back and says no, the clock was stopped, so it’s not a runoff after all. Crowd goes nuts as the teams set up for the third time to kneel the last 7 seconds off the clock. Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/27 "2008-10-02T00:28:13Z")
What was funny was just prior to this, my wife and I were watching the game and (inspired by the SDMB thread!) talking about ways for the NFL to shorten game times. Then this abominable series of plays happened. My wife turns to me and says, “Well, they could fire that guy, for a start.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/28 "2008-10-02T05:14:54Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > Find a cite with Mike Pereira saying what you think your current cite says, and I’ll give you your Linehan scenario. Fair enough. Though you’d think if the refs were allowed to run off 10 seconds for illegal formation, they absolutely would have done it this past MNF instead of that horribly drawn-out multiple-minute fiasco of a formality. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/29 "2008-10-02T05:31:12Z")
[Here](http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/askthereferee/cs-061031askjerrymarkbreit,0,6253829.story) is a second-hand Mike Pereira cite, which is good enough for me: > [@](#): > > **Also, Mike Pereira said on NFL network that a blatant attempt to kill the clock by illegal formation would result in a clock runoff.** --Randy, Plainfield, Ill. > > Mike Pereira was absolutely correct when he stated that any _blatant_ attempt to kill the clock by illegal formation would result in a 10-second runoff. This decision would lie solely with the referee. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/30 "2008-10-02T09:42:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Wouldn’t the defensive team just decline the penalty? The runoff is automagic. I don’t even know if there is an option to decline a presnap penalty like a false start. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/31 "2008-10-02T14:17:59Z")
> [@IntelSoldier](#): > > This just happened on Monday night. The illegal formation thing, that is. The Steeler-Ravens game was tied at 20-20. Baltimore just got the ball deep in their own zone with 7 seconds left. The clock was stopped since it was just kicked off. Baltimore just decides to take a knee and play in OT. So they snap the ball and kneel and some jagoff line judge throws a flag for illegal formation. So the confused, annoyed players back up 5 yards while the fans boo the lawyer. They get set to snap it again when the ref blows a whistle. The ref says it’s a 10-second run off so that’s the end of regulation. The whole crowd boos the hell out of his whole crew. So the teams are stretching out and stuff and the music is playing while everyone gets set up to flip the coin. Then the ref comes back and says no, the clock was stopped, so it’s not a runoff after all. Crowd goes nuts as the teams set up for the third time to kneel the last 7 seconds off the clock. > > Ridiculous. We may come down on different sides on this issue since I live in Baltimore, but I thought that – aggravating delay aside – Coach Harbaugh’s choice to dispute the call and out-lawyer the rules lawyer was a good one. He’s a new coach, and needs to demonstrate that he’s not going to let a BS call go against his guys. In this case it made absolutely zero difference, so standing up for the principle of the thing was easy - nobody is going to argue that it would be strategically smarter to keep your mouth shut. And the fact that it probably bugged the entire Pittsburgh crowd was just icing on the cake. 😃 Good game, by the way. I was pulling for the Ravens, and I hate sudden-death OT… but everyone knew the game would come down to capitalizing on the other team’s mistakes (not simply overpowering or beating the opponent by skill) and the Steelers did that for sure. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809/32 "2008-10-02T19:05:51Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > The runoff is automagic. I don’t even know if there is an option to decline a presnap penalty like a false start. You can decline a delay of game, and a presnap penalty where the play still occurs can of course be declined (the offense can decline Offsides if they get a big play – the so-called “free play” scenario, and the defense can decline an Illegal Procedure or Illegal Formation if they get an interception), but I don’t think you can decline Encroachment, Offsides/Unabated to the QB, or False Start. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-stopping-the-clock-in-football/465809.md?page=1)