# Question about the Arizona immigration law **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034 "2010-07-17T14:51:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/1 "2010-07-17T14:51:06Z")
For awhile I’ve been wondering something about the Arizona law that’s been in the news recently. I can’t find the answer anywhere, so I figured I’d ask at here since the master and the boards have been such a fountain of unusual knowledge. As far as I understand the law, if the police has reasonable suspicion you may be an illegal immigrant they’ll ask for proof you’re in the country legally. It’s already national law that legal immigrants should carry documentation with them at all times, so that shouldn’t be much of a problem for legals to prove it. However, natural born US citizens have no documentation they must carry. Most have drivers licenses, but that’s not required. So lets say I’m hispanic but was born in the US so am a natural citizen. For some reason, the police have reasonable grounds to wonder if I’m an illegal immigrant. Perhaps some of my friends are illegals and I got caught out with them, or maybe I don’t speak english well, many 1st and 2nd generation people don’t, and I’m a witness to a crime in an area known for housing illegals. It isn’t that hard to imagine situations where this could occur. Now I don’t have a drivers license and don’t carry my social security card on me. So, how would I prove to the police that I am not an illegal immigrant? Perhaps more importantly, could the police detain me for however long it takes them to verify I’m a citizen even if I am not suspected of committing any crime other than illegal immigration? I realize this isn’t a board for legal advice, but I’m just asking a hypothetical here. I’m not hispanic and I don’t live in Arizona, so I doubt I’ll ever be in this situation. I’m just curious on what others think since, to me, this question is the key to if I think the law really is a big problem or if it’s just some stupid, but trivial, law that’s not worth worrying about. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/2 "2010-07-17T15:08:47Z")
> [@godix](#): > > So, how would I prove to the police that I am not an illegal immigrant? Perhaps more importantly, could the police detain me for however long it takes them to verify I’m a citizen even if I am not suspected of committing any crime other than illegal immigration? The law provides that a suspect’s immigration status will be verified with federal officials pursuant to 8 U.S.C. 1373(c). That statute says that the INS will verify immigration status for state and local government agencies. The way INS does this varies by your immigration status (e.g., in on a student visa vs. US citizen). If you are a citizen with a social security number, this verification is fairly straightforward. You detention during verification depends on how long you’ll be stopped. If the system is set up in such a way as to be similar to running your plates, then reasonable suspicion is sufficient for the detention, which is the same requirement to have stopped you in the first place. A longer detention, bordering on an arrest, would require probable cause. All of this is assuming, of course, that the law is otherwise valid and enforceable. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/3 "2010-07-17T15:43:51Z")
You could be taken to detention. How long you would be there is a guess. I suppose a Friday night detention might result in a weekend wait. It depends how long and how thoroughly the INS will investigate. It also requires that they will put Arizona’s problems on their front burner. They may resent the intrusion, specially if they wind up with a lot more work due to the new law. There are a lot of towns and cities in Arizona. if the law in heavily enforced, it could result in a big problem for the INS. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/4 "2010-07-17T16:48:00Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You could be taken to detention. How long you would be there is a guess. I suppose a Friday night detention might result in a weekend wait. It depends how long and how thoroughly the INS will investigate. It also requires that they will put Arizona’s problems on their front burner. They may resent the intrusion, specially if they wind up with a lot more work due to the new law. There are a lot of towns and cities in Arizona. if the law in heavily enforced, it could result in a big problem for the INS. After arrest, you can be held for up to 48 hours in jail before charges are required. If no charges are brought, the person must be released. As for verifying a suspect’s immigration status, in Maricopa County, Arizona and other ICE partnership jurisdictions, it is currently being done through [an ICE database](http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/secure-communities-fact-sheet) as the suspect is going through the jail booking process. There is no more INS. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/5 "2010-07-17T18:12:49Z")
So the answer pretty much is that citizens could end up arrested and booked before their status as a citizen is determined? That’s kinda what I thought, especially since there was some minor talk of ICE not cooperating with Arizona on this. Thanks for the answers guys, that helps me clarify my opinion of the law a lot. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/6 "2010-07-17T22:47:39Z")
There is also the fascinating question of whether the ICE database is in fact 100% perfectly accurate so no citizen will ever be wrongfully recorded as a non-citizen and then held further pending his/her deportation. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/7 "2010-07-17T23:03:49Z")
Anyone else thinking of [_Born In East L.A._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_East_L.A.)? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2010, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/8 "2010-07-17T23:21:39Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Anyone else thinking of [_Born In East L.A._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_East_L.A.)? Yes! Cheech finds himself in the same situation when he gets picked up. And from there his journey begins… ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/9 "2010-07-18T06:15:02Z")
I’ve always wondered, if you are detained by immigration, but refuse to reveal your country of origin, how do they know where to deport you? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/10 "2010-07-18T09:25:50Z")
> [@godix](#): > > So the answer pretty much is that citizens could end up arrested and booked before their status as a citizen is determined? That’s kinda what I thought, especially since there was some minor talk of ICE not cooperating with Arizona on this. Thanks for the answers guys, that helps me clarify my opinion of the law a lot. That’s not what I heard. From what I heard, the only time they can demand your "papers’ is that if you claim to be a legal resident. But not if you claim to be a citizen, unless there is solid evidence you are not- such as the inability to speak English. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/11 "2010-07-18T10:13:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s not what I heard. From what I heard, the only time they can demand your "papers’ is that if you claim to be a legal resident. But not if you claim to be a citizen, unless there is solid evidence you are not- such as the inability to speak English. That’s not solid evidence, especially given the area of the country under discussion. It’s entirely possible for hispanic citizens to be far better speaking spanish than english since their family and communities are largely spanish speaking. Which is where my question comes in, what happens to those citizens if they fall into a cops reasonable suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/12 "2010-07-18T12:51:32Z")
If you tell the police you are a citizen, they have to have probable cause to detain you. The law specifically eliminates racial profiling as probable cause, so they would have to have some other reason to suspect you are in the country illegally. The law does not allow the police to detain people without probable cause just to check with ICE. Any person (including illegal immigrants) can just say, “I am a US citizen. Do you have reason to believe I am breaking the law? Am I free to go?”, and assuming they are not suspected of breaking other laws, there is nothing the police can do to detain them without evidence that they are in fact, in the country illegally. It is a gigantic loophole, but as **Bricker** has pointed out many times, the law depends on the ignorance of the public to be successful. Most people don’t know their rights, and don’t exercise them. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/13 "2010-07-18T12:53:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > But not if you claim to be a citizen, unless there is solid evidence you are not- such as the inability to speak English. That will come as a surprise to all the non-english speaking US citizens from Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-arizona-immigration-law/547034/14 "2010-07-18T13:47:14Z")
> [@godix](#): > > So the answer pretty much is that citizens could end up arrested and booked before their status as a citizen is determined? No. You could be detained. Not arrested and booked.