# Question about the behavior of young women on buses \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 8, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195 "2014-03-08T15:24:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![deepboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deepboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deepboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/1 "2014-03-08T15:24:19Z")
I’m 22. Ever since I started taking the bus to school from 12 (not school bus, public transportation), I’ve realized something interesting. Every time a young woman/school girl(s) came on the bus, always seemed to sit at the back or on top or stand[This was a double Decker bus]. They would rarely sit near men. Once a young woman sat near me but she had her phone out! [That’s also one thing that’s noticeable, nearly everyone is on their phone]. And another time a girl was choosing between sitting beside me and another ‘slutty’ looking girl. She chose the girl ‘apparently’ because she had a phone and figured she wouldn’t talk to her even though I was more neatly dressed. Most of the time though, other men, or older women 30+ sat near me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not perverted or paranoid I don’t mind if a man or woman sit next to me. People have the right to sit wherever they want I don’t chase after women; For me dating and relationships are strictly after I finish college. I’m just wondering why girls obsess where they sit on public transportation. Why can’t they treat a seat as a seat instead of making judgmental decisions of who a person is. If its to avoid creepy men then I think its quite silly really. If there’s a psychopathic man on the bus, I doesn’t really matter where you sit. Everyone is in equal danger. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/2 "2014-03-08T15:27:59Z")
And the relationship to your title is…? I only sit in the bus if it will make me take up less space (I’m carrying bags), if I’m with my mother and there are two seats together or if my feet are killing me. I spend all day sitting down, why would I want to sit in a seat which happens to be uncomfortable? 45yo woman, FTR. ---
**Author:** ![deepboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deepboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deepboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/3 "2014-03-08T15:33:37Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And the relationship to your title is…? > > I only sit in the bus if it will make me take up less space (I’m carrying bags), if I’m with my mother and there are two seats together or if my feet are killing me. I spend all day sitting down, why would I want to sit in a seat which happens to be uncomfortable? 45yo woman, FTR. Sorry, I just needed a more attractive title. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/4 "2014-03-08T15:37:02Z")
You’re thinking of the worst case scenario–a psychopath. If girls were worried about psychopaths, I would agree with you that they were being unreasonable. No, young women are more likely to be wary of low-level freaks and jerks. This population is quite abundant. Guys who give them creepy smiles. Guys who hit on them, say inappropriate things (even if they are complimentary). Overly friendly guys who assume they want to talk, when all the want to do is stare out the window and rest for a minute. Guys who might even follow them off the bus and ask them for their number, not taking no for an answer. Or guys studying their behavior like they are laboratory specimens, taking notes whenever they have their phones out! ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/5 "2014-03-08T15:37:24Z")
Why don’t men stand right next to each other at the urinal, if they can avoid it? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/6 "2014-03-08T15:47:36Z")
Because young women usually don’t sit down next to men on public transportation, quite a few men assume that when they do so it’s a signal. Because quite a few men assume a young woman sitting down next to them is a signal, young women usually avoid sitting down next to men. Also, MandaJO’s answer. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/7 "2014-03-08T16:04:41Z")
So, let me get this straight. You think young women should sit next to you on the bus, and pay lots of attention to you and never send signals that they want to be left alone. When they don’t do this, you believe they are unfair and mean. This is the exact reason they don’t sit down next to you, and when they do, send clear signals they want to be left alone. They don’t want to talk to you, and they don’t want you staring at their boobs, and they don’t want to be chatted up by you, and they don’t have any obligation to sit next to you so your feelings aren’t hurt. This may come as a surprise to you, but women are groped, grabbed, hear lewd comments, and are called nasty names by men, and the men who do this are no danger to other men. They are told, unceasingly, that they must be constantly vigilant against being assaulted and raped, and adjust their behavior so no man might accidentally think its okay to grab grope or rape them. Yes, you do seem rather immature. ---
**Author:** ![deepboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deepboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deepboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/8 "2014-03-08T16:10:47Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > So, let me get this straight. You think young women should sit next to you on the bus, and pay lots of attention to you and never send signals that they want to be left alone. When they don’t do this, you believe they are unfair and mean. > > This is the exact reason they don’t sit down next to you, and when they do, send clear signals they want to be left alone. They don’t want to talk to you, and they don’t want you staring at their boobs, and they don’t want to be chatted up by you, and they don’t have any obligation to sit next to you so your feelings aren’t hurt. > > This may come as a surprise to you, but women are groped, grabbed, hear lewd comments, and are called nasty names by men, and the men who do this are no danger to other men. They are told, unceasingly, that they must be constantly vigilant against being assaulted and raped, and adjust their behavior so no man might accidentally think its okay to grab grope or rape them. > > Yes, you do seem rather immature. People also get racially abused…but whenever they complain they’re told to go back to wherever they came from. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/9 "2014-03-08T16:14:21Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > People also get racially abused…but whenever they complain they’re told to go back to wherever they came from. Actually, getting told to go back to wherever they came from is racial abuse. People definitely don’t need to “complain about racial abuse” in order to get that particular line, just to look or sound “too different” from whomever is spouting it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/10 "2014-03-08T16:23:00Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > I’m just wondering why girls obsess where they sit on public transportation. Why can’t they treat a seat as a seat instead of making judgmental decisions of who a person is. I think the absolute factual answer to your question is that you are the one obsessing about transportation, not women or girls. Most people do treat a seat as a seat, not as a decision about who a person is. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/11 "2014-03-08T17:51:15Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > People also get racially abused… This is true, but what in the world does it have to do with whether or not young women should sit next to you on the bus? > [@](#): > > but whenever they complain they’re told to go back to wherever they came from. that’s not true at all where I’m from. In fact, a person would get their ass kicked saying something like that out loud on NYC public transit. But even if it were true, that means women have to sit next to you and pay attention to you? How so? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/12 "2014-03-08T18:18:36Z")
You don’t understand: actual attractive women don’t ride on busses: they have their own sport subcompacts, or are driven by admirers. What the OP is encountering are apparitions sent to beguile the young man’s mind. Proof: not only did **Amber Lamps** stay mysteriously aloof during the Epic Beard Man fight, she never resurfaces after her image went viral. _She was a Phantom of delight When first she gleam’d upon my sight; A lovely Apparition, sent To be a moment’s ornament: Her eyes as stars of twilight fair; Like twilight’s, too, her dusky hair; But all things else about her drawn From May-time and the cheerful dawn; A dancing shape, an image gay, To haunt, to startle, and waylay._ ---
**Author:** ![deepboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deepboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deepboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/13 "2014-03-08T20:35:15Z")
> [@Hello\_Again](#): > > This is true, but what in the world does it have to do with whether or not young women should sit next to you on the bus? > > that’s not true at all where I’m from. In fact, a person would get their ass kicked saying something like that out loud on NYC public transit. > > But even if it were true, that means women have to sit next to you and pay attention to you? How so? OK I think this thread is going way off course…I apologize if I’ve been offended or been misunderstood. The two incidents that sparked this question were one when a girl was standing between me and another girl and deciding where to sit. She stood for nearly 10 seconds looking back and forth at me. She caught my attention but I tried to act normally as she was deciding. She eventually chose the girl. IMHO, I think I was dressed better. I attended a private school so I had to wear uniform. I was smartly dressed, not smelling; perhaps maybe because of my age gender and/or race (I’m half white half Indian). But I was seriously surprised that she considered sitting near someone who looked ‘slutty’ and in general more antisocial over someone who is more approachable. (Hope that didn’t offend anyone but that’s what I believe tbh) The second incident was when I sat down near a school girl, A few seconds after I sat down she asked if she could move so that she could sit near her friend. I found this quite surprising but of course I don’t dictate where anyone sits down. Now I think these two don’t show signs of a mature person. Part of being mature is being independent and recognizing what’s important. Asking someone to move so that you can sit near their friend is quite bold. I mean can’t they not be with their friend for 20 minutes on a bus journey? Its probably not even that important. I mean nowadays people are always on their phones and I seriously doubt that a teenage girl is doing ‘constructive’ stuff on their iPhone. I’m not obsessive over these kinds of things. I’m planning on taking a Psychology course in college. I just thought of this topic a few days ago. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/14 "2014-03-08T20:44:29Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > OK I think this thread is going way off course…I apologize if I’ve been offended or been misunderstood. Would you mind answering my question? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/15 "2014-03-08T20:46:59Z")
Good luck with your psychology course. ---
**Author:** ![deepboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@deepboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deepboy)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/16 "2014-03-08T20:51:20Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Would you mind answering my question? What’s your question really? Don’t understand it? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/17 "2014-03-08T22:14:39Z")
Ok, **deepboy** , let me explain something about being a woman on mass transit. Even in an enlightened place like, say, the US Midwest, in a city like Chicago, it is _common_ for women to be groped during standing room only rush hour on the train or bus. By that I mean complete strangers grabbing buttocks and breasts or anything they can reach. And these jerks _won’t stop_ even if you tell them to, if you confront them they deny it, and so forth. Basically there are men out there who feel entitled to touch women without asking and a woman has to watch out for them _everywhere_ she goes in public. This is not something men have to worry about, by and large. When sitting next to a strange man there is the continued possibility of groping, pinching, and other completely inappropriate touching, possibility facilitated by the man being able to conceal much if not all of it behind a seat back. Maybe YOU would never do such a thing but there are men out there who do, and they’re just as likely to be dressed in an expensive suite and impeccably groomed as they are to be shaggy bums dressed in rags. The thing is these women _can’t tell which you are_. Creepers look _just like all the other men_. I’ve met bums stinking of booze who were nonetheless complete gentlemen completely respectful of boundaries even when drunk, and I’ve met cold sober executives who just _did NOT understand_ women were not sex dolls put their for there pleasure but actual fellow human beings. Even if a woman is not inappropriately touched far too many men view a woman taking a seat as an opportunity to try to talk the woman into having sex with them. Yes, that’s rather crudely put, that’s what it comes down to. Too many men who find _nothing_ wrong with quizzing a complete stranger who happens to be female about where they live, whether they’re “taken” or not, what’s their phone number/e-mail/other contact info, can they talk to you later, can they date you, and just how married are you? They aren’t bothered by you cheating on your man so you should be OK with it, too, since it’s an opportunity to use their wonderful penis! As mentioned, sometimes men want to _follow_ women when they get off the bus or train, which is seriously creepy and threatening as well. These same assholes would simply ignore a male stranger sitting next to them, or, if engaging said person in conversation, would not demand contact information, future meetings, or try to follow them home. So, for a woman, since sitting next to another woman will almost never result in being molested, interrogated, or followed home sitting next to another woman rather than a man is nearly always the better choice. If she is even considering sitting next to you rather than alone or with another woman that’s actually a testament to how wholesome you do look. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/18 "2014-03-08T22:34:45Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > What’s your question really? Don’t understand it? It is probably your experience that you avoid using a urinal right next to another dude. This is pretty firmly established as a social norm. The reason for this is the understanding that choosing the urinal right next to another man when there are empty ones available might be perceived as a sexual overture. It’s the same for taking seats on a bus. There exist men who would interpret a girl choosing to sit next to them when there are empty seats available as a flirtatious act, and so would respond in kind. Therefore, if you don’t want to send a flirtatious signal, you opt for the seat by a woman. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/19 "2014-03-08T22:39:47Z")
> [@deepboy](#): > > Now I think these two don’t show signs of a mature person. Part of being mature is being independent and recognizing what’s important. Asking someone to move so that you can sit near their friend is quite bold. I mean can’t they not be with their friend for 20 minutes on a bus journey? Its probably not even that important. I mean nowadays people are always on their phones and I seriously doubt that a teenage girl is doing ‘constructive’ stuff on their iPhone. You have no idea what made the first girl choose as she did. Now I think passing judgement on her maturity or lack of such isn’t a sign of a mature person. The second girl you describe as a school girl. Teenage girls are not supposed to be terribly mature, just more mature on average than boys of the same age, and your description is a bit confused, did she move, or did she ask you to move, or did she ask you to let her out to move to a different seat? Whichever case it was, you don’t really know her motivation either, and your evaluation of both events seems full of bias and prejudice, and not particularly mature. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195/20 "2014-03-08T23:02:29Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It is probably your experience that you avoid using a urinal right next to another dude. This is pretty firmly established as a social norm. The reason for this is the understanding that choosing the urinal right next to another man when there are empty ones available might be perceived as a sexual overture… _Really?_ I’m a guy and I would not percieve that and would not have that concern. Have not had that thought once, ever. The urinal bit is more like sitting a lunch counter. Social norms are that you give a certain space to others that you do not know, man or woman, when space allows for it. You don’t sit right up next to someone, man or woman, at a lunch counter if there is a room to have a seat or so in-between and you don’t sidle right up next to someone in the bathroom if there is room to pick a urinal at least one over. Nothing sexual at all. The op has a point and one easily understood if one substituted White and young Black male. In the absence of other information people act upon subconscious tapes. Even if the young Black man is dressed in a button down Oxford even some Whites will, without thinking, choose to not sit next to a young Black man on the basis of racist tapes that play. Or choose to cross the street to avoid walking by the Black male alone on the street when they would not do so for a White male or a woman. Many would label those behaviors as racist and they are _minimally_ based on subconscious _prejudices_. He believes that young women are, consciously or unconsciously, doing the same thing to him as a young man. They are avoiding being even near him on the basis of a superficial assessment. He is a young man … he might grope me, he might want to talk to me, he might compliment me, ask for my phone number, he might follow me off the bus … some young men do those things … Is he not correct? It seems that some of the answers here ( **Nava** ’s being the exception) confirm that. Men can be creeps so I will sit next to the unsavory looking woman rather than a neatly dressed man, or stand. It is, IMHO, wrong to do that on the basis of race, and I think most here would agree. Is it okay however to do that on the basis of age and gender? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-behavior-of-young-women-on-buses-edited-title/683195.md?page=2)