# Question about The Crying Game **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241 "2006-08-11T02:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Stillwell\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@Stillwell\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stillwell_Angel)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/1 "2006-08-11T02:21:46Z")
Okay, I’m always about ten or fifteen years behind on my movie viewing, so I’m just seeing this for the first time tonight. Now from what I remember about the hype when this was first released, the big suprise was that Jody’s “special friend” that the IRA guy falls for turns out to be a man. My question is, did anyone _really_ not know the minute they saw this character that it was a guy? 😕 I remember it being one of those twists that no one would give away during interviews and promotion because it was supposed to be such a shock. :dubious: I’m just not gettin it. He didn’t even _slightly_ resemble a real female. Or is it just me?? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/2 "2006-08-11T02:35:53Z")
I fell for it hook, line and sinker. I think Jaye Davidson is a very fetching girl. When I saw that dick, I was shocked. And I think my husband almost had the same reaction that Stephen Rea had! 😉 Unusually for me, the film had not been spoiled for me, and I didn’t suspect a thing. A cool thing about that bar? It looked totally “normal” before the Big Surprise, and then it looked totally gay/drag afterwards! I watched it again, and nothing had changed but my perception. Well done, Mr. Jordan. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/3 "2006-08-11T02:44:32Z")
She might only look masculine to you because you know she’s a man from the get-go. Remember, when we saw this back in the theater, nobody had any idea. When you watch a movie, and a character is introduced as a strikingly beautiful woman (or a gangster, or a wizard), you buy it. Suspension of belief is part of the deal. Also, back then (in the distant '90s), even if you knew there was a big surprise, you didn’t automatically think it’s a gender-switch. I think this was even before the Eddie Murphy trannie-hooker scandal, so that plot device is far more commonplace now. Yes, I was convinced. I thought the “big twist” was something that had happened earlier in the movie, so when she was introduced I wasn’t waiting for another one. As the movie went on, though, I thought it looked like she had an adam’s apple. Not long after that was the big reveal. And what a brilliant reveal it is! Even with the adam’s apple, during the camera-pan I was _still_ thinking, “gee, her breasts are pretty small…” 😃 As for the bar, I did think it looked like a gay/trans bar from the beginning. But it didn’t seem (too) out of the question that they might have a female torch singer. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/4 "2006-08-11T02:48:37Z")
I had no idea. I don’t think anyone in the theater knew because there was this _huge_ gasp followed by various screams and “yikes!” and "Oh my God!"s. Everyone was blown away. It was quite the big deal, back then in the dark ages. ---
**Author:** ![Rachael\_Rage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@Rachael\_Rage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachael_Rage)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/5 "2006-08-11T02:52:06Z")
I just ran an image search for Jaye Davidson, since I didn’t really remember what he looked like. _Gasp!_ He looks _exactly_ like Chloe Sevigny! (a bit darker, but still!) ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/6 "2006-08-11T03:00:09Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] I fell for it hook, line and sinker. [/QUOTE] Same here, thought she was pretty hot. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/7 "2006-08-11T03:01:21Z")
I’ve never seen the movie. How do they reveal it? They don’t…show his junk do they? ---
**Author:** ![Operation\_Ripper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/34f0e0/32.png) [@Operation\_Ripper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Operation_Ripper)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/8 "2006-08-11T03:02:21Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] I’ve never seen the movie. How do they reveal it? They don’t…show his junk do they? [/QUOTE] Yup yup. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/9 "2006-08-11T03:05:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] I’ve never seen the movie. How do they reveal it? They don’t…show his junk do they? [/QUOTE] I believe they call it the full monty in England, full frontal in Hollywood. In other words, the junk is indeed shown. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/10 "2006-08-11T03:12:49Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] I’ve never seen the movie. How do they reveal it? They don’t…show his junk do they? [/QUOTE] IIRC, at the point when Fergus (Stephen Rea’s IRA member) finally gets down to business with Dil (Jaye Davidson), they do a slow pan down Dil’s body as Fergus undresses her, eventually revealing the meat and potatoes. As a gay man, I’ve always found his reaction a tad extreme and more than a little drama-queeny, but… ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/11 "2006-08-11T05:39:28Z")
The only false note for me was the … shrinkage effect. Given the situation you’d expect him to be erect, I would have thought. I understand why they didn’t/wouldn’t/couldn’t show him like that, but it still seemed wrong to me. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/12 "2006-08-11T06:21:52Z")
[QUOTE=Stillwell Angel] Okay, I’m always about ten or fifteen years behind on my movie viewing, so I’m just seeing this for the first time tonight. Now from what I remember about the hype when this was first released, the big suprise was that Jody’s “special friend” that the IRA guy falls for turns out to be a man. My question is, did anyone _really_ not know the minute they saw this character that it was a guy? 😕 I remember it being one of those twists that no one would give away during interviews and promotion because it was supposed to be such a shock. :dubious: I’m just not gettin it. He didn’t even _slightly_ resemble a real female. Or is it just me?? :smack: [/QUOTE] I was going to agree with you until I flipped over in the middle of the movie just now. The ads showed him at his manliest… right now he looks fairly girly. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/13 "2006-08-11T11:41:19Z")
Yes. Even with his hair chopped short and wearing a guy’s football jersey, he looked like a short-haired girl in a jersey. ---
**Author:** ![shizaru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@shizaru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shizaru)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/14 "2006-08-11T11:50:53Z")
[QUOTE=Stillwell Angel] Okay, I’m always about ten or fifteen years behind on my movie viewing, so I’m just seeing this for the first time tonight. Now from what I remember about the hype when this was first released, the big suprise was that Jody’s “special friend” that the IRA guy falls for turns out to be a man. My question is, did anyone _really_ not know the minute they saw this character that it was a guy? 😕 I remember it being one of those twists that no one would give away during interviews and promotion because it was supposed to be such a shock. :dubious: I’m just not gettin it. He didn’t even _slightly_ resemble a real female. Or is it just me?? :smack: [/QUOTE] When I first saw the movie it was on VHS. I had rented it and I lived in the barracks then. It was late, I was having a few beers, and I was watching it when the dick part came up. Took me totally by surprise. I woke up a bunch of my buddies and my squad leader and rewound the part for them to see if they would be shocked. Every single one of them were like **“Thats a DUDE? OMG!”** But if I watch it again I’m so aware that Jaye davidson is a man its hard not to see it when he’s in drag. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/15 "2006-08-11T12:42:26Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] I had no idea. I don’t think anyone in the theater knew because there was this _huge_ gasp followed by various screams and “yikes!” and "Oh my God!"s. Everyone was blown away. It was quite the big deal, back then in the dark ages. [/QUOTE] When I went, a guy called out, helpfully, to Steven Rea, “She’s got a dick.” ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/16 "2006-08-11T12:57:30Z")
[QUOTE=Stillwell Angel] Now from what I remember about the hype when this was first released, the big suprise was that Jody’s “special friend” that the IRA guy falls for turns out to be a man. [/QUOTE] Oh, great. Now you tell us. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/17 "2006-08-11T13:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=Askance] The only false note for me was the … shrinkage effect. Given the situation you’d expect him to be erect, I would have thought. I understand why they didn’t/wouldn’t/couldn’t show him like that, but it still seemed wrong to me. [/QUOTE] It’s still illegal in the UK to show a stiffy in a movie, on TV, or even in soft porn (hence the name?). ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/18 "2006-08-11T13:27:28Z")
I saw this film as a Sunday afternoon matinee. When the junk appeared I murmurred a “what the f\*ck?”. There were plenty of gasps and “ooohs” in the crowd. Several people got up and left. I guess we were all surprised. Remember back then we didn’t have the plethora of digital outlets filled with info that we have today. I knew jack-shit about this film other than the fact that there was some sort of twist. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/19 "2006-08-11T14:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=Darth Vader’s Little Pal] … As for the bar, I did think it looked like a gay/trans bar from the beginning. But it didn’t seem (too) out of the question that they might have a female torch singer. [/QUOTE] It’s \*not \*gay/trans at the beginning. I mean it is, but not discernably. That is why they have the ‘second look around the bar’ scene, with a tonne of trans/gay faces. On the one hand it is a bit devious to have a major plot point that turns on manipulating the audiences’ suspension of belief. Nastily done, I generally think. On the other hand the film is a good one, with or without the trans theme. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2006, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241/20 "2006-08-11T14:15:53Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] I fell for it hook, line and sinker. I think Jaye Davidson is a very fetching girl. When I saw that dick, I was shocked. And I think my husband almost had the same reaction that Stephen Rea had! 😉 Unusually for me, the film had not been spoiled for me, and I didn’t suspect a thing. A cool thing about that bar? It looked totally “normal” before the Big Surprise, and then it looked totally gay/drag afterwards! I watched it again, and nothing had changed but my perception. Well done, Mr. Jordan. [/QUOTE] That was exactly my experience as well, particularly the perception shift in the bar. When I saw the genitals it actually took me a moment to process what that meant! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-crying-game/368241.md?page=2)