# Question about the film "Enemy at the Gates" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 4, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262 "2008-07-04T03:26:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/1 "2008-07-04T03:26:01Z")
I watched the film Enemy at the Gates, which is a fictionalized account of the sniper Vasily Zaytsev (Jude Law) and a propaganda officer named Danilov (Joseph Fiennes) who writes articles about him, making him a Soviet hero and giving the people hope. Danilov later turns out to be somewhat of a villain, as he is shown to be using the innocent Zaytsev to help his propaganda but actually putting the man’s life at risk by making him a big hero and therefore, a big target for the Nazis. Several reviews of the film have described Danilov as being Jewish. There is nothing in the movie that says that he’s Jewish. Danilov is not a Jewish surname. Are some of these reviewers just assuming that the character is a Jew just because he has glasses and an education? I don’t understand. One review even accuses the movie of being anti-Semitic for portraying the “Jew” as a treacherous character, but the movie never says that he’s Jewish, so I think whoever wrote that review is just assuming that he’s Jewish just _because_ he’s an unsavory character and projecting his own prejudices onto the guy. What is the deal here? Am I missing something? Are people just seeing “glasses and swarthy features” and drawing the conclusion that he’s a Jew? (Also, this movie does not even come close to actually representing how loud a Mosin Nagant rifle is.) ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/2 "2008-07-04T04:40:40Z")
Anyone know? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/3 "2008-07-04T06:52:15Z")
I don’t have a copy of the movie on me, but I seem to recall a conversation between Danilov and Tania when they first meet where it’s briefly mentioned that he is Jewish. In either case, it wouldn’t have much bearing on anything, other than to give him something in common with Tania, who identifies herself as a Jew. It occurs to me that this would be a great thread for that Jewish smilie at some point if we still had it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/4 "2008-07-04T18:28:45Z")
Was he based on an actual historical figure, like Zaytsev was? Maybe they’re saying he’s Jewish because the real Danilov was Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/5 "2008-07-04T20:50:37Z")
Yes, it says explicitly. There’s a scene where he brings Tania a sturgeon and she says, “You’re Jewish, aren’t you?” He replies that there’s nothing in the religion that forbids eating it. They go into a discussion about how her father knew the anti-Semitism would catch up to them. On DVD chapter 11…about 1 hour 3 minutes in. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/6 "2008-07-04T20:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Danilov later turns out to be somewhat of a villain, as he is shown to be using the innocent Zaytsev to help his propaganda but actually putting the man’s life at risk by making him a big hero and therefore, a big target for the Nazis. [/QUOTE] I didn’t get that at all. Zaytsev was a portrayed as a good Soviet citizen who had no objection whatsoever to being used in that way. The worst thing Danilov did was turn his later pieces against Zaytsev for slacking off in his killing rate – and that was just because the two were rivals for Tania Chernova. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/7 "2008-07-04T21:15:56Z")
IRL, how far could a Jew get in the Communist Party of the Soviet Union under Stalin? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/8 "2008-07-04T21:20:07Z")
Pretty far. Genrikh Yagoda was deputy commander of the GPU and founder of the NKVD, making him the “greatest” Jewish murderer of the 20th Century. There were more than a few very high placed Jews under Stalin. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/9 "2008-07-04T23:47:32Z")
Now that you have your “new” Mosin Nagant, notice anything odd about the DVD cover? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/10 "2008-07-04T23:56:59Z")
Well I don’t have the DVD cover but I looked up a picture of it, and the bolt handle is on the left side. Weird. Is that some kind of left-handed variant? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/11 "2008-07-05T00:03:39Z")
Nah. Someone could have made a custom one once upon a time, but all production models were right hand. Someone just flipped the picture when designing the cover. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/12 "2008-07-05T00:10:29Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Well I don’t have the DVD cover but I looked up a picture of it, and the bolt handle is on the left side. Weird. Is that some kind of left-handed variant? [/QUOTE] It’s the “Someone flipped the image” variant. 😉 There were no left-handed M91/30 rifles manufactured or used by either the Soviets or the Finns, and Major Thorvald/Major Konig was a Soviet Propaganda invention and didn’t exist IRL, either. If you’re ever in Volgograd/Stalingrad, you can visit the Panoramic Museum Of The Battle of Stalingrad, which has Vasily Zaitsev’s rifle on display. The Russians didn’t keep serial number records of which rifles where issued to whom, but Zaitsev says it was his rifle and if he was even half as good with it as he is alleged to have been, then he’d certainly be able to recognise his own rifle from any other M91/30 sniper rifle. The telescopic sight from Major Thornvald’s K98k Sniper Rifle is in the Armed Forces Museum in Moscow. Given that Heinz Thorvald never existed, it’s obviously just a telescopic sight from a random K98k sniper rifle put on show to gel with the “Vasily Zaitsev defeated Germany’s best marksman!” myth, and 60 years later it would be a bit awkward to say “Yeah, the Soviets made that bit up”, hence the polite fiction that the scope came from Thorvald. (It may, however, have come from another one of the German marksmen that Vasily would have shot in his time, though). ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/13 "2008-07-05T00:44:17Z")
Did Danilov exist IRL? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/14 "2008-07-05T00:51:19Z")
I have found no proof that he existed in real life. He was a fictional character made up for the movie. I have also found absolutely no proof whatsoever in the movie that the character is supposed to be Jewish. I’m going to assume that the reviewers who wrote that he was, simply assumed it, either because of his appearance or because he was an educated intellectual. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/15 "2008-07-05T01:02:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Did Danilov exist IRL? [/QUOTE] I believe he did, but may be a combination of people, and was nothing like the character portrayed in the film. Unfortunately I don’t speak Russian and most of the English references to him are in relation to _Enemy At The Gates_, which really isn’t exactly a reliable historical source of information. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/16 "2008-07-05T01:03:04Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] I have also found absolutely no proof whatsoever in the movie that the character is supposed to be Jewish. I’m going to assume that the reviewers who wrote that he was, simply assumed it, either because of his appearance or because he was an educated intellectual. [/QUOTE] See post #5. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/17 "2008-07-05T01:12:19Z")
Sorry, missed that. Man, why do they always make the treacherous or weaselly characters Jewish? The character could have been just fine without any reference made to his ethnicity at all, but they just HAD to have the slimy, bureaucratic, pencil-pushing schemer be a Jew (as opposed to the angelic, fair-haired, honest peasant Zaytsev.) And they say Jews control Hollywood. You’d think they’d take advantage of that and make some movies with Jewish characters that are actually heroic. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/18 "2008-07-05T01:19:40Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Sorry, missed that. Man, why do they always make the treacherous or weaselly characters Jewish? The character could have been just fine without any reference made to his ethnicity at all, but they just HAD to have the slimy, bureaucratic, pencil-pushing schemer be a Jew (as opposed to the angelic, fair-haired, honest peasant Zaytsev.) [/quote] What, and no love for Tania? :rolleyes: I never really saw Danilov as villainous or even particularly slimy, outside of the basic premise that he was a soldier who worked in PR rather than something more soldiery, which of course is never a terribly easy character to sympathize with in a war movie. > [@](#): > > And they say Jews control Hollywood. You’d think they’d take advantage of that and make some movies with Jewish characters that are actually heroic. Hebrew Hammer? 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/19 "2008-07-05T01:32:21Z")
Hollywood has always sought to portray the Jewish male as being less than masculine, or somehow inadequate. He might be smart, but he’s nebbishy and weak. If he’s strong, then he’s sleazy or evil. Jewish male heroes in movies are as rare as hen’s teeth. I for one am sick of it. The fact that the heroic Jew of the movie is a female, just confirms that. I have nothing against female soldiers - there were a lot of great female soldiers in the Russian army - but by making the Jewish female the strong one and the Jewish male the ineffectual one (at the beginning of the movie, he gives his rifle to Zaytsev because he _doesn’t know how to shoot_, not because he knows Zaytsev is the better shooter) is just keeping with the usual Hollywood portrayal of the Jewish male as something other than what an ideal male is supposed to be. The Hebrew Hammer just bothers me more because the whole movie is premised on the idea that the concept of a Jewish hero is just naturally so ludicrous, that it HAS to be a joke. I didn’t find that movie to be funny. David Marchese writes: > [@](#): > > Leonard Cohen is a Jew. But he’s not just any Jew: He’s dark, mysterious, unabashedly prurient and eternally hip. This is a troubling prospect. Not because of what it says about Cohen himself, but rather because of what’s been left in his wake. Which is nothing. My interest in Leonard Cohen’s music was rekindled by “I’m Your Man,” a documentary and concert film that further entrenches the poet and songwriter’s status as one of the coolest dudes around. After reacquainting myself with a body of work that includes darkly beautiful and richly evocative classics like “Hallelujah,” “Bird on a Wire,” “First We Take Manhattan” and “Famous Blue Raincoat,” I began to wonder where I could find some contemporary examples of Jew-man coolness. I didn’t know where to turn. Looking for poets, I found only pishers. Shmendriks abound, sex symbols are few and far between. Where have all the cool Jews gone? > > Things used to be different. The late '60s through to the late ‘70s – a time frame roughly coincident with the era of Cohen’s greatest visibility – is looking more and more like a golden age of Jewish male celebrity (disclaimer: Jewish is defined here as having at least one Jewish parent): Bob Dylan, Lou Reed, Neil Diamond, Billy Joel, Paul Simon, Kiss’ Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons, Donald Fagen from Steely Dan, Randy Newman, Michael Douglas, Richard Dreyfuss, Dustin Hoffman. Starsky. Spock. Don’t forget converts like Sammy Davis Jr. – yes, children, there was a time when an African-American celebrity chose to be Jewish. Crazy, I know. And if nothing connects the aforementioned men other than their Judaism, well, that’s kind of the point. It wasn’t that long ago when super-successful Jewish celebrities weren’t just kvetchers and schlemiels; they were rock ‘n’ roll heroes and sensitive singer-songwriters, tough guys and gangsters, song and dance men and slapstick artists. James Caan played badasses. Adam Sandler plays jackasses. Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld? Self-absorbed jerks. David Blaine? What’s going on? > > Money, for one thing. The old vaudevillian stereotype works as a business model. “It’s a kind of shorthand,” says Rich Cohen, the author of “Tough Jews: Fathers, Sons, and Gangster Dreams” and the new “Sweet and Low: A Family Story.” “Stereotypes are so much easier for the people who make this stuff.” Ben Stiller, Sandler and Seinfeld have made millions playing the fool, thus, there’s no incentive to change. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262/20 "2008-07-05T01:33:20Z")
[QUOTE=Raguleader] I never really saw Danilov as villainous or even particularly slimy, outside of the basic premise that he was a soldier who worked in PR rather than something more soldiery, which of course is never a terribly easy character to sympathize with in a war movie. [/quote] Well, he lets his love for Tania lead him to (nearly) betray Vasily, though he sorta makes up for it, eventually. > [@](#): > > Hebrew Hammer? 🆒 Oy. You wanna watch such a thing? Why should you want to watch such a thing? You want maybe everybody watch this thing? Oy. _You Don’t Mess With the Zohan_ features a heroic (if not _super_-heroic) Jew, so I don’t know what Argent Towers is kvetching about. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-film-enemy-at-the-gates/455262.md?page=2)