# Question about The Godfather **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716 "2009-02-20T14:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/61 "2009-02-22T18:00:17Z")
I agree that “Michael playing Carlo for years” would’ve been a neat concept; after all, who at that point (end of The Godfather) even knew? Mike, Tom, Clemenza, Tessio, and maybe Neri? And Tessio just went away. But that’s in the nature of a cat playing with its food before eating it, and Mike’s not a “cat.” If i had to choose, Michael Coreleone is a “spider.” Puzo’s book, to me, was disjointed. There were parts that read well, like an educated, experienced writer might write (mostly the expository bits), and there were parts that read like a precocious high-schooler’s attempt at literature (mostly the contemporary dialogue, which seemed to revolve around booze and cooze). So your last sentence, IMO, really hits the nail right on the head: Coppola took a good plot with bad dialogue and transformed it into damned near a masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/62 "2009-02-22T18:11:47Z")
I havent had time to read all the way through the thread so my apologies if I’m duplicating previous posts answering the O.P. People have an incredible amount of self delusion when their own death is imminent and quite often even when it isn’t,just in the near future. Former I.R.A.terrorists who actually got caught "touting"for the Brits ie.informing on their friends ,a little bit like most of the population in preWall E. Germany were offered immunity from revenge by the I.R.A. if they returned home. They used to get so homesick for where they were brought up they convinced themselves that they’d be ok. They would give the slip from their Brit bodyguards,return home and then get a very slow death from their ex colleagues . Another point is still on the self deception item is that even though someone who knows that they and their captors totally hate each others guts that if told they would not be killed would choose to believe it out of desperation,this makes it a lot easier to get the person to go without trouble to the place of execution. In my former job we had training on what to do if caught alive,act dumb,ill etc.we were told if caught by the I.R.A to try and make our captors extremely angry so that they would kill you straight off instead of having to endure a long drawn out death like they used to give to other Irishmen who pissed them off. That came out wrong by the way I’m English. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/63 "2009-02-22T22:02:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see that. It had to be reciprocal. Tessio betrayed the family so the family had to kill Tessio. But he could have been allowed the privilege of dying by his own hand, like Field Marshal Rommel. Hell, he was one of the _founders_ of the Corleone Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/64 "2009-02-22T22:46:28Z")
But then Tessio would have been killing himself. My point was that it wasn’t just a matter of wanting Tessio dead, it was the family had to be the agent of his death. If Tessio had killed himself or the Barzinis had killed him or he had died of a heart attack then the Corleones would have been denied their revenge and their reputation would have been diminished. This point was made in Part II, when the Corleones were frustrated by the fact that they couldn’t get access to Pentangeli in order to kill him and finally had to settle for having him kill himself. This was seen as a sign of weakness. If the Corleones had been strong enough, they would have been able to find a way to kill Pentangeli directly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/65 "2009-02-22T23:37:51Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > So your last sentence, IMO, really hits the nail right on the head: Coppola took a good plot with bad dialogue and transformed it into damned near a masterpiece. There is no “damned near” about it, the first two Godfather films are always included in the top 10 of any critic’s list of best American movies, even if that list is 100 movies long. They are beyond masterpieces. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/66 "2009-02-23T00:12:33Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Do you mean in the movie? Because in the book, she knew damned well what her problem was- a huge hey-hey that no guy could get any friction in. IIRC, she had ony a couple of disgruntled lovers, one of whom “muttered something about her being ‘too big down there’” as he left her. So she sought Sonny out after hearing the stories of his gigantic schlong. > > What she found out from her abortion-doctor boyfriend in the book was that he knew someone who could “tighten her up” in exchange for him performing an abortion for a showgirl client of the plastic surgeon. No, I’m talking about the book. Yes, she knew she was “too big”-she just didn’t know it could be fixed, IIRC. Sorry, I haven’t read the book since high school, so I’m going from memory. It’s also a shame how badly Pacino has aged. He was DAMNED handsome in the first two movies-and now look at him…damn. Brando may have been fat, but he still had that debonair charisma. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/67 "2009-02-23T00:21:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It’s also a shame how badly Pacino has aged. He was DAMNED handsome in the first two movies-and now look at him…damn. Brando may have been fat, but he still had that debonair charisma. Think about it: the only one in the gang (guys, anyway) to have aged well is Duvall! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/68 "2009-02-23T00:30:15Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Think about it: the only one in the gang (guys, anyway) to have aged well is Duvall! Hey, Abe Vigoda barely looks a day older. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/69 "2009-02-23T00:35:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Hey, Abe Vigoda barely looks a day older. 😃 Damn! I thought he had been dead for years. Decades even. They better hurry and make GFIV if they want him in it. As a ghost? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/70 "2009-02-23T01:13:03Z")
> [@Zeldar](#): > > Damn! I thought he had been dead for years. Decades even. They better hurry and make GFIV if they want him in it. As a ghost? [You can track his status here](http://www.abevigoda.com/). ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/71 "2009-02-23T01:44:02Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > There is no “damned near” about it, the first two Godfather films are always included in the top 10 of any critic’s list of best American movies, even if that list is 100 movies long. They are beyond masterpieces. I tend to agree. But I also tend to avoid declarative statements of fact concerning art, because as inevitable as shit stinks and the sun rises in the east, some internet tool _will_ be along to start an argument about it. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/72 "2009-02-23T01:51:49Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > [You can track his status here](http://www.abevigoda.com/). I thought that this was depressing. I thought how it must suck to be sitting around, haven’t worked in years, and some internet ghouls are just counting the days until I die. Until I looked [here.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001820/) The man is _still_ working. Amazing. And, as of 2007, still making money playing Sal Tessio. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/73 "2009-02-23T01:57:43Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > I thought that this was depressing. I thought how it must suck to be sitting around, haven’t worked in years, and some internet ghouls are just counting the days until I die. > > Until I looked [here.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001820/) > > The man is _still_ working. Amazing. And, as of 2007, still making money playing Sal Tessio. He was a semi-regular on Conan and is in on the joke apparently. He has made a living by looking 20 years older than he was so he has a very good sense of humor about all of it. Check out what his real age was for The Godfather and Barney Miller. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/74 "2009-02-23T02:00:55Z")
Carlo as a mole in Vegas might have been interesting, but I don’t think it would have been believable. His character has already been built up as greedy, hot-headed, easily manipulated and not very bright. To now have him capable of pulling off a subtle, long-term double-cross like that, and for Michael to trust that he could do it, wouldn’t have been realistic for either character, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/75 "2009-02-23T02:19:04Z")
It wouldn’t have had to be primarily for information Carlo could find out about Moe Green’s operation, though. It could have been primarily to keep Carlo hanging uncomfortably under a sentence of death, while getting information from him that could then be followed up by another source, with the understanding that if Carlo were to feed Michael any misleading or incorrect information, he was a dead man. I like the cat-and-mouse analogy offered above–it fits Michael’s cruel nature, and seems much harsher than just killing Carlo quickly and painlessly. He wouldn’t have needed to develop new skills of espionage, but merely go to work for Moe Green, and to meet iwth Tom Hagen every so often and tell Tom what he observed about Green’s operation. Tom could then investigate with more trustworthy informants whatever intriguing things Carlo has unearthed. As Le Carre, a much more devious thinker than Puzo, might have said, you don’t even need to be particularly smart or well-informed to spy on someone–all you need is access and an eye for detail. Your superiors can then process and analyze what you give them. I’d have loved to read The GF after Le Carre had a pass at it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/76 "2009-02-23T03:14:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The man is still working. Amazing. And, as of 2007, still making money playing Sal Tessio. And he’ll be celebrating his 88th birthday this Tuesday. Looking at his credits, I see that he was only ten years older than Hal Linden when they made Barney Miller together. And four years younger than Jack Soo. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/77 "2009-02-23T03:15:37Z")
Yeah…but Mo Green died at the end of 1, at pretty much the same time as Carlo (“All our debts are settled today.” Or something very like that). So who is Carlo going to spy on? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/78 "2009-02-23T05:17:30Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Yeah…but Mo Green died at the end of 1, at pretty much the same time as Carlo (“All our debts are settled today.” Or something very like that). > > So who is Carlo going to spy on? Moe Green died at the end of GF II. Shot in the eye. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/79 "2009-02-23T06:01:34Z")
Nope. End of 1, in the big kill-off. About 2:40 in on my DVD. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/80 "2009-02-23T06:07:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Moe Green died at the end of GF II. Shot in the eye. Hyman Roth was talking about Green’s death in the middle of II. Moe was killed during the Christaning scene at the end of GFI. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716.md?page=5)