# Question about The Godfather **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716 "2009-02-20T14:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/81 "2009-02-23T06:14:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Hyman Roth was talking about Green’s death in the middle of II. Moe was killed during the Christaning scene at the end of GFI. Yep, when Mike asked Roth who authorized the hit on Frank Pentangeli. Hyman went into his little speech about Moe, how they came up together, how great Moe was for founding Vegas, etc., etc., and how he (Roth) never asked “Who OK’d the hit on Moe Green” as it was just business. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/82 "2009-02-23T07:49:47Z")
The Vigoda: Living or Dead joke started back in the 80s when two or more show biz journals referred to “The Late Abe Vigoda”. At the time he was not only alive but appearing on Broadway in _Arsenic & Old Lace_, and to combat rumors he was dead he went on David Letterman for a “Top Ten Proofs Abe Vigoda is Alive” (a mirror was held under his nose, his pulse was taken, etc.). Since then he’s been a late living legend. He barely acted professionally before Tessio- a couple of ‘extra’ roles and some Broadway musical “cast of thousands” numbers but he’d never been able to pay the bills. IIRC he was driving a taxi part time when he went on the casting call for the Godfather, expecting to get a role as a wedding guest, but Coppola liked his look and he could act. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/83 "2009-02-23T09:54:54Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Yep, when Mike asked Roth who authorized the hit on Frank Pentangeli. Hyman went into his little speech about Moe, how they came up together, how great Moe was for founding Vegas, etc., etc., and how he (Roth) never asked “Who OK’d the hit on Moe Green” as it was just business. It doesn’t have to be Green, necessarily. Carlo could have been placed in a series of positions where he could have performed a number of “mole” jobs–this assumes of course that Michael hasn’t been able to track down and kill everyone who’s hurt the Corleones. According to Puzo, he pretty much has by the time he’s massacred everyone but I think that’s just Puzo tying up every loose end he can think of–he could easily have written it so that, in the remaining loose ends (i.e., everything that couldn’t be tied up neatly in a bow) he would have some of his revenge-contracts serving his will to nail all the loose ends, which is both more realistic and crueler. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/84 "2009-02-23T13:57:40Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Hyman Roth was talking about Green’s death in the middle of II. Moe was killed during the Christaning scene at the end of GFI. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/85 "2009-02-23T16:43:06Z")
The only Tessio scene that I remember is his last one. Where else does he appear in the movie? ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/86 "2009-02-23T19:29:37Z")
Off the top of my head… When they got the call about where McClusky was signed out to he described Louis (It’s perfect for us), the tank and pull chain style of toilet at Louis and how it could be used to conceal the gun. At the Don’s funeral, he approached Michael about the meeting with Barzini and sealed his fate. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/87 "2009-02-23T22:22:32Z")
Other Tessio moments: He brings in the bulletproof vest with the fish in it. (Leading to a great Clemenza line: “It’s a Sicilian message. It means Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.”) After the failed hit at the hospital he meets Michael at the gate and gave the line: “We’ll need 'em now. After the hospital thing, Sonny got mad. We hit Bruno Tattaglia at four o’clock this morning.” At the big meeting late in the movie with Vito, Michael and the capos, Tessio pleads for Vito to do something about Barzini but Vito defers to Michael who brushes him off. This is the foreboding that Tessio (or Clemenza) will turn on Michael. ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/88 "2009-02-23T22:28:45Z")
Tessio dances at Connie’s wedding with a small girl (maybe a grand daughter?) standing on his feet. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/89 "2009-02-24T17:58:04Z")
Isn’t Tessio also somewhere in the scene when Clemenza’s teaching Michael how to cook? ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/90 "2009-02-24T18:47:40Z")
I mean 9of course0 the actor who played him-i don’t ever recall seeing him in any other movies. You are right about vigoda-the guy looked like he was 80 when he was 50! He reminds me of my grandfather-who stopped ageing when he hit 45 (he looked the same at 89). ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/91 "2009-02-24T18:50:07Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I mean 9of course0 the actor who played him-i don’t ever recall seeing him in any other movies. [Yes](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0751625/). And still working. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/92 "2009-02-24T19:55:30Z")
Apropos to nothing in particular, but I thought it was interesting that in the book the family regarded Carlo, whose ancestry was mostly northern Italian, as being just a much a foreigner as Kay (who had no Sicilian or Italian ancestry at all). Also in the book (not the movie) it was Tom who said “It’s a Sicilian message, Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes”. Though he was a “Mick Kraut” mut, he had become fluent in Sicilian almost immediately after being taken in by the family and was a walking encyclopedia of Sicilian culture (and his wife was Sicilian), the zeal of a convert. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/93 "2009-02-24T20:12:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Apropos to nothing in particular, but I thought it was interesting that in the book the family regarded Carlo, whose ancestry was mostly northern Italian, as being just a much a foreigner as Kay (who had no Sicilian or Italian ancestry at all). > > Also in the book (not the movie) it was Tom who said “It’s a Sicilian message, Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes”. Though he was a “Mick Kraut” mut, he had become fluent in Sicilian almost immediately after being taken in by the family and was a walking encyclopedia of Sicilian culture (and his wife was Sicilian), the zeal of a convert. I think that was very true at the time. Sicily had a very uneasy relationship with Italy and brought that attitude over with them to the US. Remember Sicily was it’s own country until 1860 and is still an autonomous region. I went to [wiki for this part to help explain](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_regions_with_special_statute#Autonomous_regions_with_special_statute) it: > [@](#): > > Article 116 of the Italian Constitution grants to five regions (namely Sardinia, Sicily, Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol, Aosta Valley and Friuli-Venezia Giulia) home rule, acknowledging their powers in relation to legislation, administration and economy. They keep … 100% (Sicily) of all levied taxes. In return they have to finance the health-care system, the school system and most public infrastructures by themselves (except for Sicily and Sardinia). > > These regions became autonomous in order to take into account linguistic and cultural differences, … or geographically isolation in the case of the two greater islands, Sicily and Sardinia. ---
**Author:** ![TJVM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b38774/32.png) [@TJVM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJVM)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/94 "2009-02-24T21:35:43Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > However, I would contend that he wasn’t that way until after he killed Solazzo and McCluskey. The whole scene is set up to show how tense he is about the whole situation. And when he’s sitting there, after he’s returned from the bathroom with the gun, and Solazzo is talking to him in Italian (with no sub-titles, perfect for the scene) he’s not paying attention. His eyes are darting all over the place, he’s sweating, he’s gulping … it’s like he’s going over in his head what he’s getting himself into. Two pistol shots and he’ll be sealing his fate. > > It’s quite a performance. I believe I’ve read that the studio was seriously considering recasting the role of Michael, until they saw the footage of this scene; apparently that convinced them that Pacino, who was not well-known at that time, was the right actor for the job. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/95 "2009-02-24T22:09:27Z")
Not only is today Abe’s birthday, but it’s also Dominic Chianese’s (Johnny Ola). A mere kid at 78. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/96 "2009-02-24T22:15:14Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Not only is today Abe’s birthday, but it’s also Dominic Chianese’s (Johnny Ola). A mere kid at 78. Happy Birthday, Uncle Junior! In on some of the best movies and best TV going. And the boy can sing, too. ---
**Author:** ![johnspartan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a183cd/32.png) [@johnspartan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnspartan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/97 "2009-02-24T22:21:39Z")
The point about Tom getting smart about the Sicilian way of doing things leads me to an interesting thought. Each son is basically the embodiment of a single aspect of the personality. Sonny is ruled by his emotions. Tom is drawn to logical appeals and reason. Fredo is, I guess, predominately drawn to socializing, social relationships, etc. Michael’s quest in 1 is, I’d argue, the balancing of them all — and controlling each of them so they are used properly without letting any dominate him. Michael can’t be too much like Sonny, or like Tom, or like Fredo, or he’ll fail. Has anyone ever written up Godfather as a look at id, ego, and superego? Or logos, pathos and ethos? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/98 "2009-02-25T02:49:20Z")
It wouldn’t take much to paint Tom as a sociopath. He seems the least troubled of anybody (save perhaps Sonny) at killing, even (by implication anyway) orchestrating the murder of the prostitute, seems slightly surprised but non judgmental at Woltz’s child star mistress (deleted scene- basically he just sees it as something he can possibly use against Woltz, not as “OMG that bastard!”), and is colder and more methodical than any of his brothers save perhaps for Michael. Anyone else see him this way? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/99 "2009-02-25T03:08:01Z")
One thing I never understood was the way Michael treated Tom in _Godfather II_. Tom was apparently always loyal but Michael seemed to hold him in contempt. Why was this? Was it supposed to show that Michael thought Tom’s loyalty was a sign of weakness - a stronger man would have challenged him? Was Michael angry at Tom because Tom survived when Sonny and Fredo were dead? Was Michael really mad because Tom was cheating on his wife (which he mentioned at one point) but if so why would Michael care that much about that? I feel like there’s some key aspect of their relationship I’m missing. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716/100 "2009-02-25T03:11:06Z")
The latest Vanity Fair has a very interesting article on The Godfather. Did you know that Danny Thomas was in line to play Don Corleone? Can you bloody imagine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-godfather/486716.md?page=6)