# Question about "The Matrix" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 27, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387 "2000-03-27T20:47:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![TheMadHun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@TheMadHun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheMadHun)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/21 "2000-03-28T08:50:00Z")
> [@](#): > > One of the machines therein, which was designed to press and fold sheets, was nicknamed “the mangler” by the people who worked there because people periodically got an extremity caught in the machinery and would then get…well, mangled. A mangle is a machine through which clothes, linen etc are passed for the purpose of ringing water out of them, it’s like two heavy rollers with a mechanism for turning them. To my knowledge the machine gave rise to the phrase “to mangle” by virtue of it’s detrimental effect on human limbs. Mangles were used domestically in cities where there was too much soot and polution in the air to dry them outide on lines. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/22 "2000-03-28T10:23:00Z")
Lexicon, are you saying that fusion reactions are not bound by the laws of thermodynamics? please explain. Diletant, One reason the Matrix reminds you of some hong Kong movies is that it employed veteran HK fight coreographer Yuen Wo Ping, whose work can be seen in Black Mask and Romeo Must Die. Also glad to hear from another Dark City fan. That movie definitely deserved more recognition than it got, both from moviegoers and critics. * * * Perked Ears indicate curiosity - Know Your Cat ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/23 "2000-03-28T14:09:00Z")
On the pills and programs. I’m not adept enough in the knowledge of the matrix to argue myself, but I know a couple of armchair philosophers who live and breath the matrix and they claim that there’s nothing in the movie to indicate that the pills represent programs. They claim that there’s no need for “locator” subroutines, but they agree that it’s a subroutine (or more accurately a computer virus) that awakens the humans from their slumber. Their claim is that the choice of pills is symbolic. Taking the right pill represents a conscious choice for life outside of the matrix… i.e. it’s an act of faith. From what I remember from the movie, this seems to make sense, but I plan on watching it again soon… Hey, I kinda liked it, even with it’s “4,753 plot holes”. ---
**Author:** ![kilwc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b487fb/32.png) [@kilwc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kilwc)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/24 "2000-03-28T14:19:00Z")
[QUOTE] Originally posted by CurtC: \*\*If you haven’t seen the movie but plan to, hit the [back](http://boards.straightdope.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General+Questions&number=3&DaysPrune=20&LastLogin=) button on your browser now. I thought it was a decent action/sci-fi flick, but one seeming hole in the plot kept my disbelief from being suspended properly. The computer/machine kept all humans in a suspended state from birth till death, giving each a customized view of reality. But why? What did the computer need the humans for? It sure was a lot of trouble to go through, what with births, deaths, and pod maintenance, and the CPU cycles could have been put to so much more effective use on other tasks, such as finding more prime numbers and calculating pi more accurately. Was there something I missed? recommended reading: “I have no mouth and i must scream” (a short story) by Harlan Ellison ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/25 "2000-03-28T14:33:00Z")
Matrix2 & 3 are due out later this year or early next. They are supposlly thier are being filmed at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/26 "2000-03-28T14:34:00Z")
_The Matrix_ wasn’t original at all. It stole things from many other books and movies. Before you claim that there’s anything original about these ideas, why don’t you read the works of Philip K. Dick and see just how old they are? The real problem with the film isn’t that the ideas aren’t original (after all, _The Terminator_ also stole all its ideas, and it’s a great film), the problem is that it hasn’t put those ideas into a coherent story. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/27 "2000-03-28T14:44:00Z")
On Plato: \*\* Diletante:\*\* > [@](#): > > Oh, and one other thing…this may be stretching. It was very similar to Socrates’ allegory of the cave, which appeared in Plato’s REPUBLIC. I doubt that tag-line would sell many tickets though. How does the steak-eating scene fit into this? If I recall (and having only seen the movie once, back when it came out) Wastzisface was in a virtual restaurant with a bad-guy being bribed with a better virtual life than his real life. He was chowing down on a thick, juicy steak. It seemed that he preferred the non-real to the real. Maybe because non-real steak is better than real-nothing? The similarities to the Cave occurred to me too, but I am having trouble making it fit. I think the problem is that we tend to associate any literary poly-reality where one reality is the ‘true’ reality with the Cave. But if something does not address the idea of Forms, the similarity ends quite abruptly. On the Suspension of Disbelief: I was able to suspend my disbelief for this flick long enough to enjoy it. I was able to fill in what gaps I noticed during the film and compensate for shallow explanations. For instance, humans-as-batteries does not bother me, for there was a _lot_ of technology in the film that I didn’t quite understand. It was science _fiction_, and just as Verne and Bradbury used machines that were impossible in their day, we have to allow for the impossible in contemporary literature. (Note, I am not comparing the authors of the Matrix to V. and B, just making a point). I just assumed that there was more than I was being told at the time. That fits in well with the above comments regarding Morpheus not being able to comprehend the machine’s mind. My question is, then, why was I able to enjoy this movie, but was nauseated by the X-Files movie? I assume there is a thread somewhere about the board that rips that flick to shreds, so I won’t go into it here. What makes the hurdles insurmountable between movies, and between people? Lastly, on the hijack: The Mangler, btw, was an incredibly scary story (I was twelve when I read it) in a book of short stories called **Night Shift**. The book, IIRC, also had the original stories for Salem’s Lot, Cat’s Eye, Maximum Overdrive (Trucks?), Sometimes They Come Back, Lawnmower Man (which bares little resemblance to the story) and maybe one or two others. Some were made into full-length movies, some have popped up on my video store’s shelves. Some are worth watching, others are worth coasters. Thanks for listening, ## Rhythmdvl Once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right… ---
**Author:** ![paintsvillecom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@paintsvillecom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paintsvillecom)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/28 "2000-03-28T14:46:00Z")
**Boris B:** No prob, but you’re right. There are many ways the machines could have powered themselves other than with human batteries, which is why I think it is interesting to view the film in terms of the arrogance of humans (not the ones in the movie, but those who made it) who assume that, after we have been made obsolete by machines, that they would still want to keep us around to serve some sort of purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Foggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foggy/32/1082_2.png) [@Foggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foggy)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/29 "2000-03-28T14:47:00Z")
I need more coffee. I just check this site: [http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/homepage.html](http://www.corona.bc.ca/films/homepage.html) ## They now say the sequels will be out in 2002. ===m==(ô¿ô)==m=== ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/30 "2000-03-28T15:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The Nerd wrote: > I thought it was one of the best movies I’ve ever seen. Don’t get out much? There are a lot of top-notch movies, most of which you can find in the middle part of Blockbuster instead of on the walls. Some suggested classics:[ul][li]Casablanca[/li][li]The Godfather[/li][li]North by Northwest[/li][li]Rebel Without a Cause[/li][li]Rear Window[/li][li]Double Indemnity[/li][li]Dr. Strangelove[/li][li]The African Queen[/ul][/li] These are off the top of my head. Surely the Matrix can’t compare to any of these. ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/31 "2000-03-28T16:02:00Z")
Rythm, you’re right, he did prefer the Matrix to reality, which is why he wanted back in. The Matrix, to him, was better than reality. Who **cares** that it’s not real? It looks like reality, it quacks like reality, and it’s sure a hell of a lot better than reality. * * * I sold my soul to Satan for a dollar. I got it in the mail. ---
**Author:** ![Zor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/848f3c/32.png) [@Zor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/32 "2000-03-28T16:31:00Z")
Here’s a quote from the Matrix’s [script](http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/8448/Matrix.txt)… > [@](#): > > **Morpheus:** > > They discovered a new form of fusion. All that was required to initiate the reaction was a small electric charge. Throughout human history we have been dependent on machines to survive. Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony. The human body generates more bio-electricity than a 120-volt battery and over 25,000 B.T.U.'s of body heat. We are, as an energy source, easily renewable and completely recyclable, the dead liquefied and fed intravenously to the living. All they needed to control I can overlook the clear violation of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, but there is one thing that just totally ticked me off… 200 years into the future and you _still_ haven’t switched over to metric? :rolleyes: You deserve to be batteries… Ugh… anyway, onto the pill… > [@](#): > > **Morpheus:** > > The pill you took is part of a trace program. It’s going to make things feel a bit strange. And that’s accompanied by this a few seconds later… > [@](#): > > **APOC:** > > Targeting… almost there… Lock! I got him! That answers the pill question I suppose… Now about the film itself… The Matrix wasn’t advertised to be anything more than an action and sci-fi flick, so I really can’t complain too much about the story line. I do think Carrie-Anne Moss’s (Trinity) martial arts sequence in the beginning was a big downer, and she just looked like an amateur (or maybe I just didn’t think Moss looked good enough to be a cyber-babe). Reeves (Neo) and Fishburne (Morpheous) did a good job as far as the action scenes went, but that last part where Reeves dives into Agent Smith and makes him explode was _way_ too cheesy. I suppose you just _had_ to get the bad guys before the credits roll in a Hollywood film. That part, by the way, isn’t in the version of the script that I had linked to. Other than that, I only have a bone to pick with the silvery-fluid texture they put on the machines that appear in the film. Those worked well for T-2000 in Terminator 2 since he’s supposed to be a shapeshifter, but for an actual mechanical unit? Come on… that’s just cheap computer graphics… p.s. BTU = British Thermal Unit = Amount of heat required to raise the temperature one pound of water from 60 degrees to 61 degrees Fahrenheit at a constant pressure of one atmosphere. ---
**Author:** ![Zor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/848f3c/32.png) [@Zor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/33 "2000-03-28T16:33:00Z")
Naturally, I just had to mess up the UBB code in such a long post ☹ Why was it that we can’t get a preview function again? ---
**Author:** ![TheNerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/858c86/32.png) [@TheNerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheNerd)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/34 "2000-03-28T17:29:00Z")
Hehe Curt. I’ve never seen any of those movies. Nor do I plan to. I don’t particularly like the “classic” movies. I will go rent Dark City sometime though. ---
**Author:** ![heathen7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@heathen7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/heathen7)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/35 "2000-03-29T06:43:00Z")
The purpose of fiction is to entertain. If you want to watch technically correct and scientificly correct films try the learning channel, or the discovery channel. CurtC: I have seen those classics and would much rather watch the matrix. Everyones a movie critic * * * **Warning** The surgeon general has determined life is hazardous to your health ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/36 "2000-03-28T19:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I think it is interesting to view the film in terms of the arrogance of humans (not the ones in the movie, but those who made it) who assume that, after we have been made obsolete by machines, that they would still want to keep us around to serve some sort of purpose. Why not arrogance of the machines themselves? I think that if machines really had AI, they might think, “Hey, these humans have been using us for centuries; let’s give them a taste of their own medicine.” I kinda like the irony in being forced to serve something that you built to serve you. (Like Windows, perhaps? OK, now I don’t like the irony any more.) ---
**Author:** ![Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilgore_Trout_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/37 "2000-03-28T22:32:00Z")
[quote] I think the reason for this and the other 4,753 plot holes… [quote] hit me with a few, please. > [@](#): > > These are off the top of my head. Surely the Matrix can’t compare to any of these. why not? > [@](#): > > First of all ditto to everyone who pointed out that for heat and electricity any mammal would do just as well as a human. Some posts here have brought up processing power, but this was not mentioned in the movie, only in post-movie attempts to save an absurd scenario. the battery explanation in the movie makes perfect sense considering it is coming from a human who may not know the full intentions of the machines. the story wasn’t told from the point of view of the machines, so why do you expect to know everything they know? in _Ronin_, John Frankenheimer does not disclose what is in the case because the story is told from the point of view of characters that don’t know the case’s contents. this allows the viewers to speculate as to what might be in the case, allowing them to use their imagination, perhaps making the movie that much more interesting. now whether or not the wachowski brothers meant to leave you in the dark as to the machine’s actual plans, that doesn’t matter. the fact is that the machines could be using the humans as processors whether it’s mentioned in the movie or not. ## it seems many of you don’t understand the concept of a **movie**. it isn’t a textbook. _what is essential is invisible to the eye -the fox_ ---
**Author:** ![Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Kilgore\_Trout\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilgore_Trout_1)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/38 "2000-03-28T22:33:00Z")
damn UBB. > [@](#): > > I think the reason for this and the other 4,753 plot holes… hit me with a few, please. > [@](#): > > These are off the top of my head. Surely the Matrix can’t compare to any of these. ## why not? _what is essential is invisible to the eye -the fox_ ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/39 "2000-03-28T23:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by stolichnaya: > \*\ ***Bricker** , the question having been answered, I’m taking this to the shores of Tripoli. Was there ever an industrial machine called the mangle? Which came first, the machine called the mangle, or the word mangle meaning to damage horrendously? I’d guess the former, because why on earth would you name a machine after grievous bodily harm? > \*\* If you ever read the short story or watched the movie, you didn’t pay attention. The machine is called the steam ironer & folder or some such B.S. It was nicknamed “the mangler” by the people who worked with it. * * * ## If you say it, mean it. If you mean it, do it. If you do it, live it. If you live it, say it. Joe Cool ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2000, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387/40 "2000-03-29T00:51:00Z")
What, _everybody else_ missed the humanist antirationalist theme? Say it ain’t so. I thought this was one of the philosophically deepest movies in some time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-matrix/9387.md?page=3)