# Question about The Shining (HUGE SPOILER)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 14, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496 "2008-07-14T20:50:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 12
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/1 "2008-07-14T20:50:15Z")
I saw the movie _The Shining_ on HBO the other night, and I was reminded of a question about the ending of that movie that has always bugged me. I realize that mouseover doesn’t respect spoiler boxes, so I’ll natter on for a few lines before I get to my question. My spoiler will ruin the end of the movie for you, so if you haven’t seen it, stay out!
While I’m nattering, whatever happened to Shelley Duvall? _The Shining_, _Popeye_, and then … what?
One other thing that I was reminded of: There’s nudity in _The Shining_! I guess more recently I’d only seen it on basic cable, and that part got cut.
Anyway, to my question: [spoiler]In the very last shot of the movie, after Nicholson has frozen to death inside the hedge maze, the camera zooms in on the old photo hanging in the lobby, showing the July 4th party in the ballroom from **1921**. Lo and behold, there’s Nicholson right in front.
My question: What the hell does this mean? Why is Nicholson in a picture from more than fifty years ago? Was he always in the picture, or did he only appear there after he died? Do all the ghosts in the hotel migrate there? Is he trapped, or is he happy there?[/spoiler]
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### Author:  [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/2 "2008-07-14T21:11:04Z")
From [kubrickfilms.warnerbros.com](http://kubrickfilms.warnerbros.com):
[spoiler]Frequently Asked Questions.
What does the end shot of a picture of Jack Torrance at a 1921 July 4th party signify?
Similar to his somewhat mysterious and ambiguous ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey, this has been debated by Kubrick enthusiasts for years, and typically, Kubrick himself never gave a definitive answer, preferring to let audiences decide for themselves.
Probably the most logical interpretation is that it is the visual confirmation of Grady’s (Philip Stone) line to Jack Torrance (Jack Nicholson) in the red bathroom scene: “You’ve always been the caretaker.” It also plays on the theme that Evil has always existed and always will.[/spoiler]
Sort of what I guessed. I’m betting Kubrick never gave a definitive answer because he didn’t have one. Just a cool idea for an ending that could be interpreted many ways and didn’t need to necessarily make sense.
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### Author:  [@bubastis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubastis)
#### Post date: [July 14, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/3 "2008-07-14T23:39:35Z")
Someone said this in a Twelve Monkeys thread a while ago, and it suits here too…
There are several possible explanations to the movie, but none can be definitive as each one requires a final puzzle piece that isnt available to us.
I always thought that after Jack clocks out, he then becomes part of the photo.
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/4 "2008-07-15T00:44:13Z")
Shelley Duvall went on to host a couple of childrens’ programs in the 80s, then pretty much disappeared from Hollywood.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/5 "2008-07-15T00:48:55Z")
Shelley Duvall got naked in _Thieves Like Us_.
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### Author:  [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/6 "2008-07-15T01:39:19Z")
[spoiler]In the book, the hotel is described as being haunted by ghosts from all the different periods of its existence: “All times are one.” Presumably the picture is meant to signify that Jack has joined this never-ending bacchanal. Is he happy? The book indicates that the Overlook’s merriment is ultimately hollow and soulless, a bitter masquerade fueled by suffering.
On the other hand, Movie Jack is played by Nicholson, so he’s probably relieved to be free of his limp, bug-eyed wife and her creepy kid. I know I would be.
I think the picture likely changed when Jack died. It may not even be intended as a literal physical change, just a confirmation that he’s been absorbed into the Overlook’s gestalt.[/spoiler]
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/7 "2008-07-15T16:44:53Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.]
Shelley Duvall got naked in _Thieves Like Us_.
[/QUOTE]
I just threw up in my mouth.
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### Author:  [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/8 "2008-07-15T17:14:20Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy]
I just threw up in my mouth.
[/QUOTE]
Preach it.
The award to the most wooden acting ever in a major motion picture by an actress goes to - envelope please -
Shelley Duval, in the “The Shining!”
I’ve never been able to sit through all of it - I can’t get through her completely emotionless, monotone delivery.
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### Author:  [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/9 "2008-07-15T18:28:26Z")
For another WTF? moment in **The Shining** , I give you [the Dogman](http://unspeakablehorror.com/journal/2006/10/28/the-shinings-dogman.html).
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### Author:  [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/10 "2008-07-15T18:41:47Z")
I have nothing to add to the answers already posted, but I’ll just toss in an observation:
A similar device was used in the “Night Gallery” vignette “The Flip Side of Satan,” screenplay by Malcolm Marmorstein:
A very isolated location (in this case radio station), which is haunted by some Unknown Evil, that ends up swallowing the person stationed there (Arte Johnson), whose photo ends up on the wall—in a long line of DJs (all of whom were employed for only one night).
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### Author:  [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/11 "2008-07-15T19:01:31Z")
Saw Shelley Duvall in ‘Roxanne’ the other night. Forgot she’d been in that.
MiM
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### Author:  [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-shining-huge-spoiler/456496/12 "2008-07-15T20:32:37Z")
My take on the ‘1925 photo’ is that Nicholson’s ghost was absorbed _backwards_ into the Overlook Hotel’s history. He wasn’t actually there in '25, but sort of projected into the past. It doesn’t make a whole lot of linear sense, but I think that the finale of the film was basically that - a breakdown of rational rules governing reality. Insanity becoming reality, if you will. But that’s my own interpretation.
As for Duvall, I read somewhere (no cite, sorry) that Stanley Kubrik, who was known as being brutally hard on actors, took a particular dislike for Duvall. Several times, he made her re-do certain takes on “the Shining” well over 100 times, and viscously screamed at her almost daily, and reduced her to tears fairly frequently. Duvall was so traumatized by the experience that she actually gave up acting for several years _because_ of “the Shining.” (She’d been contractually obligated to do “Popeye” for Robert Altman - a director she got along with - but refused to take on any other roles after that.)