# Question about the ST Prime Directive **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 5, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537 "2014-02-05T00:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/1 "2014-02-05T00:54:48Z")
> [@](#): > > The Prime Directive is explicitly defined in the March 1968 episode “Bread and Circuses”: > > “No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space or the fact that there are other worlds or civilizations.” Starfleet’s [Prime Directive](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_directive) forbids interference with the development of intelligent species more technologically/scientifically primitive than the Federation member races, and (I presume) within Federation space or outside it. This rules out any conquest, colonization, or exploitation of them. It also rules out any form of officially sanctioned missionary work, whether religious or political, i.e., teaching them about democracy. But it would also seem to rule out any form **commerce** with them. If they deal with Federation traders they will at least be made aware of the existence of Federation technology, which cannot help but affect their development. But, as we’ve seen more than once on the shows, the Federation is a civilization where private merchants travel around at warp speeds in their own private spacecraft. Does it apply to **them,** and if so how is it enforced? And what about private, not-officially-sanctioned missionary work? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/2 "2014-02-05T01:03:36Z")
I always thought it applied just to Starfleet, rather than everyone in the Federation; > [@](#): > > General Order 1: “No starship may interfere with the normal development of any alien life or society.” (TAS: “The Magicks of Megas-Tu”) > **[General Orders and Regulations](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/General_Orders_and_Regulations)** > > Starfleet Command General Orders and Regulations were a series of guidelines used to instruct members of Starfleet on the proper etiquette and policy in a situation that required consultation for a resolution. These protocols were the foundation of... ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/3 "2014-02-05T01:27:37Z")
It’s more of a … guideline. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/4 "2014-02-05T01:33:37Z")
I always just assumed the traders were trading with people who either had their own warp technology, or somebody let the cat out of the bag and, even though the natives are still living in grass huts, they know there are people with spaceships. How primitive civilizations have anything worth trading for, I’m not sure. Then again, Elaan of Troyyius wore dilithium crystals as awkward jewelry, so never mind that last part. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/5 "2014-02-05T01:44:07Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I always just assumed the traders were trading with people who either had their own warp technology, or somebody let the cat out of the bag and, even though the natives are still living in grass huts, they know there are people with spaceships. How primitive civilizations have anything worth trading for, I’m not sure. > > Then again, Elaan of Troyyius wore dilithium crystals as awkward jewelry, so never mind that last part. Since the Federation (depending on period/show) can use replicators to produce any material goods of which it has prototypes, the profit would be in new things – a primitive world’s art, music, foodstuffs, etc., all new to Federation customers. In addition, of course, to such natural resources as are scarce even within the Federation (depending on period/show), like dilithium. BTW, I thought about the above in connection with the _ST:NG_ episode where Quark’s ship lands in Roswell, NM in 1947 and he tries to work out a “business proposition” with the officers at the base. No one ever thinks to ask, “And what would you want in return? We could pay you in currency, but you can only spend it here. What do we have or make that an advanced race like yours needs?” The best response to which would be, art, music, foodstuffs, etc. (And, since we’re talking about Ferengi, human women. The horny bastards will fuck **anything** on two legs.) ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/6 "2014-02-05T01:44:14Z")
I think Roddenberry bit off far more than the franchise could ever “chew” with the Prime Directive. It seems to be rather arbitrary in its regulations and its enforcement and I could see where many civilization who wanted cloaking technology, biological augmentation and the ability to trade weapons to less advanced cultures would simply say “Thanks, but no…” when the Federation came knocking on their door. One thing that has always bothered me about the Star Trek universe is that it seems what is bad for EARTH is deemed to be bad for everybody else. I’m not certain that I remember an episode when human values were supplanted by non-human ones. I’m not even certain that Federation being on Earth isn’t seen as it being to “Earth-centric” is mission and its philosophy. If Star Trek ever does return to television, I for one would like to see the Prime Directive be quietly moved further into the background. I don’t mean selling warp technology to unprepared races or exploiting less developed groups. Just deal with subjects without without forcing a Earth-based morality down the viewers throats. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/7 "2014-02-05T01:44:16Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Then again, Elaan of Troyyius wore dilithium crystals as awkward jewelry, so never mind that last part. But Elaan was going to be betrayed by one of her own guards, who had made a deal with the Klingons. So maybe it was the Klingons who had initiated First Contact, with the Federation just following up. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/8 "2014-02-05T01:47:46Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > But Elaan was going to be betrayed by one of her own guards, who had made a deal with the Klingons. So maybe it was the Klingons who had initiated First Contact, with the Federation just following up. My point was, yes, they did have something worth trading for. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/9 "2014-02-05T01:50:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But it would also seem to rule out any form **commerce** with them. If they deal with Federation traders they will at least be made aware of the existence of Federation technology, which cannot help but affect their development. > > But, as we’ve seen more than once on the shows, the Federation is a civilization where private merchants travel around at warp speeds in their own private spacecraft. I don’t see how this defies the Prime Directive. The PD only applies to interference with _pre-warp_ civilizations - ie, those most vulnerable to exploitation, or alteration of their arc of civilization by warp-capable species. Merchants trade within the Federation (TOS and earlier), or with other warp-capable civilizations - Ferengi, Klingon, Cardassian, Romulan, Breen, etc. A lot of these are, of course, out at various points in the timeline, due to war, but even in times of war, the Federation and her enemies aren’t the only warp-capable civilizations out there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/10 "2014-02-05T02:42:40Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > I don’t see how this defies the Prime Directive. The PD only applies to interference with _pre-warp_ civilizations - ie, those most vulnerable to exploitation, or alteration of their arc of civilization by warp-capable species. > > Merchants trade within the Federation (TOS and earlier), or with other warp-capable civilizations - Ferengi, Klingon, Cardassian, Romulan, Breen, etc. A lot of these are, of course, out at various points in the timeline, due to war, but even in times of war, the Federation and her enemies aren’t the only warp-capable civilizations out there. But, a merchant might **want** to trade with a pre-warp civilization, if it has anything he thinks he can sell. BTW, I’ve always wondered whether it was a violation of the PD for Kirk even to try to honestly buy dilithium from the Hulkans in the “Mirror, Mirror” episode. We tend to overlook that because Mirror-Kirk’s/Starfleet’s approach to the matter is . . . so very different. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/11 "2014-02-05T03:09:39Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > It’s more of a … guideline. Yes. The actual rule is: “No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space or the fact that there are other worlds or civilizations. Unless it would be inconvenient not to.” ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/12 "2014-02-05T03:17:50Z")
…or if you are Janeway and just don’t give a flying fuck. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/13 "2014-02-05T03:19:53Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Yes. The actual rule is: > > “No identification of self or mission. No interference with the social development of said planet. No references to space or the fact that there are other worlds or civilizations. Unless it would be inconvenient not to.” “Or unless we really, really want to. Or plot-logic demands it. Or leaving the primitive culture just as we found it would ruin the whole point of the story. Or we need a base on this planet to keep an eye on the Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Dominion. Or we simply judge the PD not to apply because this society was already changed by pre-Federation or unauthorized human contact, as in ‘A Piece of the Action’ or ‘Patterns of Force’ or ‘The Omega Glory.’ Or the writers seem simply to have forgotten the PD ever existed, as in ‘Errand of Mercy.’” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/14 "2014-02-05T03:28:40Z")
The PD is a hardy perennial of Trekker discussions. Previous threads that may be of interest: > **[Starfleet's Prime Directive: Keep or trash?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=698816)** > > Imagine, if you will, that the usual space-time anomaly has dumped you in the Star Trek universe (the “original,” not the JJ Abrams continuity) a few years before the launch of of the Enterprise-D. You become good buddies with a certain... > **[Reform the Prime Directive](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=604089)** > > Lets say you have been made the Almighty master of the Star Trek universe. Top of your agenda, reform. How would you go about it? My own suggestion would be to add a proviso to the whole shall not interfere business and state that the directive may... > **[The Prime Directive](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=551048)** > > Suppose in the next century or two humanity developed interstellar travel and formed a world government. Supposing there are lesser developed but still intelligent alien races (rangng from cavemen to today’s level of technology) would support... > **[...the Prime Directive](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=433451)** > > …the Prime Directive was an important part of the founding principals of the Federation, formulated in 2160 in part to help protect the natural development of pre-warp civilizations. Captain Jean Luc Picard once said this: This is really a debate... ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/15 "2014-02-05T15:53:23Z")
Unless something or someone else already screwed up the planet, we’re just trying to unscrew it. To set them back on the path of normal development. Landrucrewing the planet. The Klingons are arming one part of the planet. Somebody left a book here about gangs of Chicago. Somebody told them about the Nazis. That computer was doing everything for them, they need to do stuff on their own. Computerized warfare is stupid. They need a taste of Armageddon to realize that peace is the right thing. (and many many more) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/16 "2014-02-05T16:07:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Since the Federation (depending on period/show) can use replicators to produce any material goods of which it has prototypes, the profit would be in new things – a primitive world’s art, music, foodstuffs, etc., all new to Federation customers. Poul Anderson’s _Solar Spice and Liquors._🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/17 "2014-02-05T17:30:33Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > My point was, yes, they did have something worth trading for. Green slave girls? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/18 "2014-02-05T18:08:07Z")
The Prime Directive was brought up in “Bread and Circuses” to answer the plot question, “Why doesn’t Scotty just send in an attack team and end the episode after fifteen minutes?” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/19 "2014-02-05T19:47:12Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > The Prime Directive was brought up in “Bread and Circuses” to answer the plot question, “Why doesn’t Scotty just send in an attack team and end the episode after fifteen minutes?” And Spock admits that, yes, they do take an oath to die rather than violate the PD. McCOY: “Must you always be so blasted honest?!” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/20 "2014-02-05T19:55:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, as we’ve seen more than once on the shows, the Federation is a civilization where private merchants travel around at warp speeds in their own private spacecraft. Does it apply to **them,** and if so how is it enforced? And what about private, not-officially-sanctioned missionary work? The only “stick” I could see (if we rule out imprisonment), is: If a commercial trader is caught “violating” the PD, he/she/it might lose their trading or buisness permit. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537.md?page=2)