# Question about the ST Prime Directive **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 5, 2014, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537 "2014-02-05T00:54:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/21 "2014-02-05T19:58:05Z")
Somehow, I serious doubt Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd put much stock in “permits.” ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/22 "2014-02-05T20:10:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Somehow, I serious doubt Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd put much stock in “permits.” Yeah. I don’t see Harcourt Fenton Mudd turning down a quick credit just because The Prime Directive stands in the way. It’s not as if any of the other laws, regulations, and morals of the Federation or its constituent societies have ever stopped him before. I’m guessing the Prime Directive is enforcable the ways that smuggling and blockade-running would be… right down to the relative difficulty of it. (Starfleet can’t enforce it any more effectively than most modern navies could enforce an anti-piracy operation in the Indian Ocean). ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/23 "2014-02-05T20:10:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Somehow, I serious doubt Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd put much stock in “permits.” Why? They seemed to me to want to try to reach an accomodation with Kirk and company by the ends of the episodes they appeared in. You want to trade (legally) within these borders? Pay your taxes and carry a permit. Both men seemed to think they could skirt “close to the line” in terms of their wares (like insisting tribbles aren’t dangerous species, or that the woman consented, etc.). But I don’t think they considered themselves in the same league as hardened criminals or pirates. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/24 "2014-02-05T20:12:03Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Why? They seemed to me to want to try to reach an accomodation with Kirk and company by the ends of the episodes they appeared in. Oh, I’m sure Mudd at least would put a great deal of stock in his licenses. He probably went to great lengths to forge them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/25 "2014-02-05T20:32:41Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Somehow, I serious doubt Cyrano Jones or Harry Mudd put much stock in “permits.” How can you get a permit to do a damn illegal thing? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/26 "2014-02-05T20:42:35Z")
Genesis is planet forbidden! I go not! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/27 "2014-02-05T20:48:36Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Oh, I’m sure Mudd at least would put a great deal of stock in his licenses. He probably went to great lengths to forge them. 😃 Only the _very best_ quality. \*Why would I wish to sell my Mother false patents? \* ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/28 "2014-02-05T20:55:45Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > It’s more of a … guideline. Even \*that \*is generous. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/29 "2014-02-05T21:03:52Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I always thought it applied just to Starfleet, rather than everyone in the Federation; > > [General Orders and Regulations | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfleet_General_Orders_and_Regulations) It’s expressly [stated](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Angel_One_(episode)) (in TNG) that the Prime Directive is only binding on Starfleet: > [@](#): > > Ramsey tells the rest of the away team that at first they thought Angel One was great, but then they saw how the men had no respect and were discriminated against. When they spoke out, they were forced to become fugitives. He refuses to leave, and Data adds that they can’t force him, as he and his crew are not part of Starfleet, nor do they have to obey the Prime Directive. Of course, that just makes the concept even more dubious than it was in the original series. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/30 "2014-02-05T23:01:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > BTW, I’ve always wondered whether it was a violation of the PD for Kirk even to try to honestly buy dilithium from the Hulkans in the “Mirror, Mirror” episode. We tend to overlook that because Mirror-Kirk’s/Starfleet’s approach to the matter is . . . so very different. And I always wondered about that too. The Empire wants the dilithium on the Hulkans’ planet. Kirk asked permission to take it and they said no; they must all die for defying the Empire. But why even ask? You have sensors, you know where the dilithium deposits are. Just start landing mining crews. If the Hulkans are really such pacifists, they won’t interfere. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/31 "2014-02-05T23:06:13Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Why? They seemed to me to want to try to reach an accomodation with Kirk and company by the ends of the episodes they appeared in. > > You want to trade (legally) within these borders? Pay your taxes and carry a permit. Both men seemed to think they could skirt “close to the line” in terms of their wares (like insisting tribbles aren’t dangerous species, or that the woman consented, etc.). But I don’t think they considered themselves in the same league as hardened criminals or pirates. Well, Mudd claimed to have a “master’s license” even though (the ship’s computer informs us) it has been revoked. He sold the Denebians the rights to a Vulcan ore separator without paying royalties to the Vulcans. He’s not a pirate, just a con artist; doesn’t think laws really apply to him. He would trade without a permit if he thought he could get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/32 "2014-02-05T23:07:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I always wondered about that too. The Empire wants the dilithium on the Hulkans’ planet. Kirk asked permission to take it and they said no; they must all die for defying the Empire. But why even ask? You have sensors, you know where the dilithium deposits are. Just start landing mining crews. If the Hulkans are really such pacifists, they won’t interfere. The Mirror Empire probably wants local slave labor to mine it for them. 🙂 Was this the episode where Kirk instructs Spock to set phasers on stun, and shoots a Klingon who falls a couple hundred feet to his death? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/33 "2014-02-05T23:12:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, Mudd claimed to have a “master’s license” even though (the ship’s computer informs us) it has been revoked. He sold the Denebians the rights to a Vulcan ore separator without paying royalties to the Vulcans. He’s not a pirate, just a con artist; doesn’t think laws really apply to him. He would trade without a permit if he thought he could get away with it. True. Hmm. I hate being so wishy washy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/34 "2014-02-05T23:15:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Mirror Empire probably wants local slave labor to mine it for them. 🙂 > > Was this the episode where Kirk instructs Spock to set phasers on stun, and shoots a Klingon who falls a couple hundred feet to his death? No, no Klingons in the “Mirror, Mirror” episode. In fact they’re never even mentioned, AFAICR; Romulans neither. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/35 "2014-02-05T23:38:35Z")
Empress Hoshi saw to that. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/36 "2014-02-05T23:42:58Z")
Mmmmmmmmmmm. Empress Hoshi. Prime _and_ direct. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/37 "2014-02-06T00:33:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I always wondered about that too. The Empire wants the dilithium on the Hulkans’ planet. Kirk asked permission to take it and they said no; they must all die for defying the Empire. But why even ask? You have sensors, you know where the dilithium deposits are. Just start landing mining crews. If the Hulkans are really such pacifists, they won’t interfere. If you have transporters, why do you even need miners? Just beam beam the stuff right out of the ground. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/38 "2014-02-06T00:40:30Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > If you have transporters, why do you even need miners? Just beam beam the stuff right out of the ground. See post #31; transporter technology can’t be that refined if there’s need for such thing as an ore separator. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/39 "2014-02-06T00:44:10Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > It’s expressly [stated](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Angel_One_(episode)) (in TNG) that the Prime Directive is only binding on Starfleet: > > Of course, that just makes the concept even more dubious than it was in the original series. Absolutely. I’ve often said that SF doesn’t _have_ to go around saving planets from natural disasters because there have to be Greenpeace-type organizations running around doing it for them. However, when you strip away all the garbage and the loopholes, the PD absolutely means, “Don’t attempt to change the direction of this society” Kirk absolutely violates that in: “Mirror, Mirror” (With disasterous consequences, though its argued it would have happened anyway) “A Taste of Armageddon” “The Omega Glory” (“Hey, that document there doesn’t mean anything like what you think it does”…well who told you to tell them that Kirk?) “The Apple” (Not only does Kirk destroy the natives Machine-God, Vaal controlled the whole planets ecology! They’re going to have to move the entire population off the planet and soon.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2014, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537/40 "2014-02-06T00:47:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And I always wondered about that too. The Empire wants the dilithium on the Hulkans’ planet. Kirk asked permission to take it and they said no; they must all die for defying the Empire. But why even ask? You have sensors, you know where the dilithium deposits are. Just start landing mining crews. If the Hulkans are really such pacifists, they won’t interfere. Nitpick - Halkans: [Halkan | Memory Alpha | Fandom](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Halkan) > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > See post #31; transporter technology can’t be that refined if there’s need for such thing as an ore separator. Yes, we already know they have mining operations that don’t seem to use transporters: [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Janus\_VI\_colony](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Janus_VI_colony) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-st-prime-directive/680537.md?page=3)