# Question about the Trayvon Martin Case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504 "2012-04-11T22:28:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/201 "2012-04-14T21:01:02Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … non-factual = fantasies Oh comon. Not a nit I’m interested in picking but a something based on reports is not the same as something pulled from thin air. The fact that the charges are murder {that’s not a fantasy right?} rather than manslaughter , has everything to do with Z’man’s state of mind. Getting fired from a security job for being too aggressive or neighbors complaining about him overstepping his authority strikes me as relevant. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/202 "2012-04-14T21:12:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t express an opinion on the likelihood of that scenario, but if that is exactly what happened, it’s hard for me to see any legal liability for Zimmerman. I agree and IMO that’s exactly why it’s being framed that way. Then when his father adds some alleged comment like “You’re gonna die tight” I get pretty dam skeptical. > [@](#): > > Absolutely correct. > > (Except for your statement that Zimmerman had “no authority” to question martin’s presence there – Zimmerman had as much authority as Chief Lee or FBI Director Mueller or Governor Scott would have had. Any person is legally entitled to approach any other person in public and ask them questions.) Well sure, and that’s a valid point, but someone in authority has more expectation of a measured response. My point being that there’s no reason to think someone is going to offer up any information upon demand by a stranger. some years ago a cop in FL asked for an ID when I was in a Quik Stop late looking for snacks. Since I hadn’t done anything to warrant being questioned I asked " DO I need one?" But he explained why he asked and then I answered. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/203 "2012-04-14T22:52:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s a red herring which has nothing to do with my statement that Zimmerman seemed to be paranoid if he felt the need to strap a gun to his hip to go to the grocery store. > > That said, I’ll humor you and answer it if you answer one for me. > > Do you think that it isn’t a bit paranoid for someone to feel the need to strap a gun to their hip when they’re driving to the grocery store? Good. No, I don’t think it is paranoid for someone with CCW license to carry the gun everywhere he goes, including driving to the grocery store. That’s what people get the CCW license for - to carry the gun with them in case they need it. And if they knew beforehand at what point they would need it, and carried it only in that case - they could earn a lot of money as clairvoyants. Now your turn. Answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/204 "2012-04-14T22:53:54Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Oh comon. Not a nit I’m interested in picking but a something based on reports is not the same as something pulled from thin air. > > The fact that the charges are murder {that’s not a fantasy right?} rather than manslaughter , has everything to do with Z’man’s state of mind. It has everything to do with an overzealous prosecutor under huge political pressure. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/205 "2012-04-14T23:09:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > > [@cosmosdan](#): > > > > The fact that the charges are murder {that’s not a fantasy right?} rather than manslaughter , has everything to do with Z’man’s state of mind. > > It has everything to do with an overzealous prosecutor under huge political pressure. So, if the prosecutor had brought a charge of manslaughter, you would not be engaging in fantasies regarding his motivation? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/206 "2012-04-14T23:21:06Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > So, if the prosecutor had brought a charge of manslaughter, you would not be engaging in fantasies regarding his motivation? Don’t be a silly goose. We’ve entered the realm of conservative antinomianism. Whatever Zimmerman may or may not have done is irrelevant; he is ideologically innocent. And any act or statement tending to portray him as guilty really says nothing at all about Zimmerman and is necessarily liberal perversity that must be resisted like any other satanic temptation. Photographs? Clearly altered. An indictment? Plainly a corrupt DA. A witness who says she heard Trayvon calling for help? Just another diabolical lib telling their dastardly lies! Why, I even heard she was a _schoolteacher_. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/207 "2012-04-14T23:28:04Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Why, I even heard she was a _schoolteacher_. A cerified pedagogue, no less. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/208 "2012-04-15T00:57:16Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It has everything to do with an overzealous prosecutor under huge political pressure. What??? You accuse me of fantasies and then pull this out of your ass? let’s see, what is appropriate here? Oh yeah! > [@](#): > > … non-factual = fantasies You know, you may be right, but you absolutely are just speculating. It’s also possible that she has done an investigation and has some facts that have not gone national yet, and feels she has a real case. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/209 "2012-04-15T01:53:31Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > We’ve entered the realm of conservative antinomianism. We’ve done which with the what, now? Gosh you shure talk purty. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/210 "2012-04-15T02:03:06Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > What??? You accuse me of fantasies and then pull this out of your ass? Both can be documented. Overzealous - she’s done things like trying a 12-year-old as an adult. Under huge political pressure - surely you don’t disagree with that? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/211 "2012-04-15T02:19:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Both can be documented. Overzealous - she’s done things like trying a 12-year-old as an adult. Under huge political pressure - surely you don’t disagree with that? I don’t know anything about her. How can you say with certainty the reason she tried a 12 year old as an adult was because of the political,pressure? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/212 "2012-04-15T02:26:34Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I don’t know anything about her. How can you say with certainty the reason she tried a 12 year old as an adult was because of the political,pressure? Since I didn’t say that at all, I didn’t say it “with certainty”. The 12-year-old-as-adult thing was an indication of overzealousness. The political pressure, in Zimmerman’s case, is obvious and does not need proving. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/213 "2012-04-15T02:29:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Both can be documented. Overzealous - she’s done things like trying a 12-year-old as an adult. Under huge political pressure - surely you don’t disagree with that? Now wait a second. I agree that the 12-yer-old shows she’s zealous. Why does it show she’s OVERzealous? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/214 "2012-04-15T02:46:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now wait a second. > > I agree that the 12-yer-old shows she’s zealous. > > Why does it show she’s OVERzealous? Terr needs that to fulfill his fantasies. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/215 "2012-04-15T02:52:05Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Now wait a second. > > I agree that the 12-yer-old shows she’s zealous. > > Why does it show she’s OVERzealous? Corey holds the record for trying juveniles as adults. Cristian Fernandez - 12 year old. As an adult. If convicted, he’d be the youngest person in US ever sentenced to life without parole in the US. This is the statement from Corey in that case, on her office’s web site: “We never, ever demonstrated any intention to seek a life sentence on Cristian Fernandez, nor even a lengthy prison sentence. We also never said this was premeditated murder.” This is the charge she sought (and received) from the grand jury: murder, first degree, with life without parole the only possible sentence if convicted. I would say this is an overzealous prosecutor. Your opinion may be different. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/216 "2012-04-15T02:59:11Z")
So, then, were it not for this “overzelous” prosecutor, Mr Zimmerman might not be under any legal threat at all? Another, more reasonable prosecutor would not have acted as she did? You seem to be anxious to imply that, are you willing to state it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/217 "2012-04-15T03:03:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, then, were it not for this “overzelous” prosecutor, Mr Zimmerman might not be under any legal threat at all? Another, more reasonable prosecutor would not have acted as she did? You seem to be anxious to imply that, are you willing to state it? He might be under legal threat. But Corey overcharged, pretty obviously, in my opinion. Unless she has a secret witness who, with night-vision-goggles, observed Zimmerman sucker-punching Martin while screaming racial epithets, she is not going to get murder second degree. I’m kinda glad she overcharged though. It will blow up in her face. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/218 "2012-04-15T03:26:58Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He might be under legal threat. But Corey overcharged, pretty obviously, in my opinion. Unless she has a secret witness who, with night-vision-goggles, observed Zimmerman sucker-punching Martin while screaming racial epithets, she is not going to get murder second degree. I’m kinda glad she overcharged though. It will blow up in her face. and here’s my beef with you. When I form an opinion you rather casually dismiss them as fantasies and make the smart ass { non factual = fantasies} comment. Rather smug wouldn’t you say? They you immediatly follow up with your own non factual specualtion/opinion and defend it how? It’s smells like you’re claiming your opinions and speculation are obviously far superior to others. What the hell? Mine are based on my initial reading and hearing of Zimmerman’s own words as a foundation for his state of mind. It seems obvious to me that no clear thinking individual assumes “on drugs” Up to no good" and concludes that someone is one of the “assholes that always get away” from simply observing a stranger on the street on a dark night. Then when you wonder who was the aggressor in thier confrontation Z’,man’s reported history as someone overly aggressive who imagines authority he does not posess is relevant just as Martin’s might be if he was known to have a short fuse and resort to violence quickly. Then we look for possible conflicts to Z’man’s story. A wtiness or two saying they heard a shouting argument before thye heard cries for help contradicts the story of Martin slugging him with barely a word. Finally, as I said, it’s possible that the prosecuter has information and evidence we have yet to see or hear. So, your opinions seem to be rational and based on information , but it’s still speculation.Others {Me in this case} who have a different opinion aren’t automatically inferior and irrational fantasies just because you don’t see it that way. Obviously, neither of us knows. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/219 "2012-04-15T03:30:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He might be under legal threat. But Corey overcharged, pretty obviously, in my opinion. But that is not a sign of an overzealous prosecutor. In fact, from what I have heard, it is pretty common. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/220 "2012-04-15T03:33:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He might be under legal threat. But Corey overcharged, pretty obviously, in my opinion. Unless she has a secret witness who, with night-vision-goggles, observed Zimmerman sucker-punching Martin while screaming racial epithets, she is not going to get murder second degree. I’m kinda glad she overcharged though. It will blow up in her face. I don’t agree but am not a lawyer. I think his 911 call and other things I’ve mentioned points to a state of mind. I think if Z’man , judging Martin to be guilty of something, did anything like try to detain, or flash his weapon to intimidate, which led to the physical confrontation, which led to the shooting, the argument of murder can be made. If Z’man hangs tough I don’t know hoiw she can prove it. Also, if the forensic audio folks can convince that it is not Z’man yelling for help on the tape, that may speak to the mind set that constitutes murder as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=12)