# Question about the Trayvon Martin Case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504 "2012-04-11T22:28:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/321 "2012-04-20T20:14:08Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > There was no eyewitness that saw the scuffle from beginning to end was there. So, how did you like Freshman Composition? Worst three years of your life? (just bustin’ yer chops, **Cosmo**. Keep on rockin in the free world,) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/322 "2012-04-21T01:16:22Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > The intertubes are all atwitter about photos that “prove Zimmerman was attacked”. Well, here you go! > > [http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht\_george\_zimmerman\_head\_dm\_120419\_wmain.jpg](http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg) > > Don’t know what to make of this, there is blood, but no apparent injury, and a very oddly precise “border”. I don’t see what’s odd about it. That’s just gravity at work. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/323 "2012-04-21T01:38:49Z")
Well, it appears to have an edge, which is an unusual configuration for a liquid. Rather more precise than one expects. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/324 "2012-04-21T02:19:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, it appears to have an edge, which is an unusual configuration for a liquid. Rather more precise than one expects. The edge is the wound. The blood flows down from there. Now, the pedigree of this pic is less than impeccable, but the configuration is what I’d expect of a horizontal laceration. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/325 "2012-04-21T02:44:51Z")
Well, **John** , you tell me you see a laceration, I’ll just say “OK-doke”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/326 "2012-04-21T04:38:52Z")
I didn’t say I could see the laceration. If the wound had been cleaned, you might see it, but it’s under the blood. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/327 "2012-04-21T06:04:44Z")
Well, there’s sort of a line across the top of his head, almost as if by a ruler. When you said “gravity”, I thought you meant the blood originated at that line and seeped downward, pulled by gravity. Which would strongly imply that’s where the laceration should be, but you say its _under_ the blood, so I’m lost. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/328 "2012-04-21T11:49:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Now, the pedigree of this pic is less than impeccable, but the configuration is what I’d expect of a horizontal laceration. Which is contradicted by his [father’s testimony at the bond hearing yesterday](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/George-Zimmerman-Due-in-Court-for-Bond-Hearing-in-Trayvon-Martin-Case-148238565.html). > [@](#): > > Zimmerman Sr. also talked about the injuries he says his son sustained in the encounter with Martin. > > “His face was swollen quite a bit, he had a protective cover over his nose and **two vertical gashes over the back of his head** ,” Zimmerman Sr. said. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/329 "2012-04-21T13:52:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, there’s sort of a line across the top of his head, almost as if by a ruler. When you said “gravity”, I thought you meant the blood originated at that line and seeped downward, pulled by gravity. Which would strongly imply that’s where the laceration should be, but you say its _under_ the blood, so I’m lost. The blood originates from the laceration, does not defy gravity and flow “up”, but flows down from the laceration. The whole laceration, meaning it would be covered up. n.b.: In no way am I saying I know this is what it is, just that this certainly is what it could be, hence not “odd”. **Fear** : Well, either the father’s testimony is false (lied or just didn’t remember correctly) or the photo is suspect. Like I said, it’s pedigree isn’t spotless. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/330 "2012-04-21T14:17:58Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/stand-your-ground-laws-coincide-with-jump-in-justifiable-homicide-cases/2012/04/07/gIQAS2v51S\_story.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/stand-your-ground-laws-coincide-with-jump-in-justifiable-homicide-cases/2012/04/07/gIQAS2v51S_story.html) > > **Stand Your Ground laws coincide with jump in justifiable-homicide cases** > > Comment? Isn’t this true for obvious reasons? If you pass a law that turns what would formerly be non justifiable homicides into justifiable homicides, wouldn’t you naturally see an increase in the latter? If we passed a law saying that cats were dogs, would it be surprising next year to see that dog ownership has spiked? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/331 "2012-04-21T14:41:17Z")
The blood in that pic also is not smeared. The blood runnerth down in gentle little lines as though it trickled out of a incision and allowed to flow. But these injuries supposedly came from Zimmerman getting his head busted open on the ground. Why isn’t the whole back of his head painted in red? I’m not saying this pic is fake, but if we accept it as true, it raises more questions that answers. Police were on the scene almost immediately after the shooting. Zimmerman was collected shortly thereafter. Did the cops not secure the area? How else would this photo have been taken? Why didnt the paramedics bandage his head? And also, why does the trickle of blood on the left start from so high up on his head? If he was lying on his back, most of the damage should have been done on the occipital area of his noggin, near the base of the skull where it starts to curve outward.And why is this coming out now, and not weeks ago when the surveillance video was in the news? Im going to put my trust in the police photos (if any), because this pic is odd to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/332 "2012-04-21T14:50:31Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The blood in that pic also is not smeared. The blood runnerth down in gentle little lines as though it trickled out of a incision and allowed to flow. But these injuries supposedly came from Zimmerman getting his head busted open on the ground. Why isn’t the whole back of his head painted in red? . I would like to know if the police took forensic samples to test whose blood it is. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/333 "2012-04-21T14:54:53Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The blood in that pic also is not smeared. The blood runnerth down in gentle little lines as though it trickled out of a incision and allowed to flow. But these injuries supposedly came from Zimmerman getting his head busted open on the ground. Why isn’t the whole back of his head painted in red? I was a paramedic for 6 years. I ran East L.A. and Riverside (rough gang areas). Banging a head will not necessarily smear blood. Scalp wounds do seep a lot of blood, but the motion of what was described was a banging, and not smearing. If you take a roundish object to a flat surface and bang it, the area of impact is quite small and the banging event is usually in a down and up motion, not a down and smear motion. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/334 "2012-04-21T15:14:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Which is contradicted by his [father’s testimony at the bond hearing yesterday](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/George-Zimmerman-Due-in-Court-for-Bond-Hearing-in-Trayvon-Martin-Case-148238565.html). Just sayin’. His father’s testimony has been baloney from the start, including comic-book-story villian lines and such. Of course Mr. Zimmerman is going to have an inflated and confused account that’s favourable towards his son, one would expect nothing else from a father worried about his boy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/335 "2012-04-21T15:15:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > The blood in that pic also is not smeared. The blood runnerth down in gentle little lines as though it trickled out of a incision and allowed to flow. But these injuries supposedly came from Zimmerman getting his head busted open on the ground. Why isn’t the whole back of his head painted in red? > > I’m not saying this pic is fake, but if we accept it as true, it raises more questions that answers. Police were on the scene almost immediately after the shooting. Zimmerman was collected shortly thereafter. Did the cops not secure the area? How else would this photo have been taken? Why didnt the paramedics bandage his head? And also, why does the trickle of blood on the left start from so high up on his head? If he was lying on his back, most of the damage should have been done on the occipital area of his noggin, near the base of the skull where it starts to curve outward.And why is this coming out now, and not weeks ago when the surveillance video was in the news? > > Im going to put my trust in the police photos (if any), because this pic is odd to me. If his head had been wiped clean once, and this is a later bleeding event, that might explain it. But I think the defense will have a difficult time using this particular photo since it isn’t a police photo, with all the bone fides attached. I suspect a good prosecutor could make this pic more or less useless. If the police don’t have any documentation of his head injuries, then he’s got some ‘splainin’ to do. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/336 "2012-04-21T15:18:11Z")
[QUOTE=dngnb8] If you take a roundish object to a flat surface and bang it, the area of impact is quite small and the banging event is usually in a down and up motion, not a down and smear motion. [/QUOTE] But the ground will still blot up blood. You won’t get neat, distinct trickle lines if a hard surface is coming in contact with blood over and over again. His head in that pic reminds me of my attempts to do Jason Pollock style paintings. Dribble some paint on an upright canvas and watch it course straight down. Maybe gently wobble the canvas to the side to get a little effect, but it’s still a controlled trickling. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/337 "2012-04-21T15:32:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > His father’s testimony has been baloney from the start, including comic-book-story villian lines and such. Of course Mr. Zimmerman is going to have an inflated and confused account that’s favourable towards his son, one would expect nothing else from a father worried about his boy. It is one thing to give wildly embellished accounts to the media, but quite another when you make sworn testimony in court. Perhaps we will see two Zimmermans behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/338 "2012-04-21T15:43:51Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But the ground will still blot up blood. You won’t get neat, distinct trickle lines if a hard surface is coming in contact with blood over and over again. > > His head in that pic reminds me of my attempts to do Jason Pollock style paintings. Dribble some paint on an upright canvas and watch it course straight down. Maybe gently wobble the canvas to the side to get a little effect, but it’s still a controlled trickling. Jackson Pollack. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/339 "2012-04-21T16:31:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Jackson Pollack. 😉 I knew that didn’t look right. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/340 "2012-04-21T16:45:34Z")
The question I have is why in the hell Zims attorney let him make that stooooopid statement on the stand. He didn’t know how old the guys was? What the hell difference does that make? It would have been less bad if Trayvon had been 10 years older? Besides, didn’t he tell the 911 operator that Trayvon looked to be in his late teens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=18)