# Question about the Trayvon Martin Case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 11, 2012, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504 "2012-04-11T22:28:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/401 "2012-04-22T14:08:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you have a link to a transcript (or video) of George Zimmerman claiming that Martin beat his head against the ground for nearly a full minute? Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > Shodan Here you go, from the reporter who had the report leaked to her. > [@](#): > > Quote: > Rene Stutzman: “If you believe George Zimmerman’s account to police, he was on the ground for a minute getting beat up.” Furthermore, Zimmerman’s father has confirmed that story. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/402 "2012-04-22T14:10:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you compared what I said to the stupidity of claiming that black people are less intelligent than white people. Huh. Are you trying to argue that it’s racist to say that blacks ARE as intelligent as whites?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/403 "2012-04-22T14:30:07Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Here you go, from the reporter who had the report leaked to her. > > Furthermore, Zimmerman’s father has confirmed that story. Thanks, but that is not what I was looking for. Do you have a link to a **transcript (or video)** of **George Zimmerman** claiming that Martin beat his head against the ground for nearly a full minute? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/404 "2012-04-22T15:29:17Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If Zimmerman hadn’t moved his head on to the grass, then we would be having a completely different discussion, since we would be trying Martin for Zimmerman’s murder. That’s quite an baseless assumption. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/405 "2012-04-22T15:38:29Z")
A struggle on the ground lasting a minute does not mean that the full minute was one of non-stop head bashing into concrete. Who knows how many of Martin’s blows landed? Maybe Zimmerman got in a few punches and got the upper hand at some point. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/406 "2012-04-22T15:42:18Z")
Well, now, that’s certainly interesting. Have I got this right, then? Martin is on top of Zimmerman, pinning him to the ground, and Zimmerman moves his head so that it is no longer being impacted onto the concrete? He has a prehensile neck? Don’t know about you guys, but if I were pinned down on my back, I can move my head…or, more importantly, the point where the back of my head rests upon the floor…I can move that maybe two, three inches at most. Side to side, about the only freedom of movement available to me. How’d he do that? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/407 "2012-04-22T15:46:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > A struggle on the ground lasting a minute does not mean that the full minute was one of non-stop head bashing into concrete. Who knows how many of Martin’s blows landed? Maybe Zimmerman got in a few punches and got the upper hand at some point. That would be a signifigantly more plausible story, but that’s not remotely consistent with the story Zimmerman told the police or that he’s been giving out to the media via his surrogates. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/408 "2012-04-22T15:53:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Thanks, but that is not what I was looking for. > > Do you have a link to a **transcript (or video)** of **George Zimmerman** claiming that Martin beat his head against the ground for nearly a full minute? > > Regards, > Shodan Since a transcript or video of his interview with the police hasn’t been released to the public that is one of the dumbest attempts at a gotcha question I’ve ever seen. However we know what he told his dad which his dad has relayed to the media and Rene Stutzman of the Orlando Sentinel gave a detailed description of what Zimmerman told police in the video I linked to earlier. I recommend all interested in the case watch the video. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/409 "2012-04-22T16:17:45Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Do you need the reference to that portion of the law yet again? Read up on the meaning of “or”. Then read the law again. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/410 "2012-04-22T17:46:29Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > True, and we may never know how the conversation became a fight. The prosecutor claims they have evidence that will come out in the trial, so we shall see what it is and how convincing it is. OK, I get where you’re going with this. Actually, there is an ear witness to this. Both voices were raised prior to this . I’m not sure the prosecution can make the leap on this but that would be the best line of prosecution. It would help immensely if any of the conversation were discernible but that was not reported unless his girlfriend’s recount is the beginning of the exchange. From that angle, Martin starts the conversation, Zimmerman answered a question with a question and then something happens that disconnects the phone. If this can be established as the beginning of the fight and shows up in his testimony then we’re back to Zimmerman’s story and it’s accuracy (absent Martin’s). ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/411 "2012-04-22T20:18:54Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Since a transcript or video of his interview with the police hasn’t been released to the public that is one of the dumbest attempts at a gotcha question I’ve ever seen. This is not a gotcha question. Zimmerman’s father’s account is not Zimmerman’s account. What a reporter alleges is not Zimmerman’s account. What Zimmerman says is Zimmerman’s account. If and when the trial begins, we can determine if Zimmerman’s father is giving an accurate account of what Zimmerman told him. We will also be able to determine if Zimmerman really claimed, as the reporter alleges, that he was having his head bashed for nearly a minute, or only that the fight lasted for nearly a minute, or that he never made any specific reference to how long his head was bashed and the reporter misstated what she thought he said, or something else. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/412 "2012-04-22T20:32:35Z")
Or that anybody but Zimmerman ever said word one about bashing heads into concrete. We’re clear on that right, **Macgiver**? Your silence may be taken as assent? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/413 "2012-04-22T22:16:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Or that anybody but Zimmerman ever said word one about bashing heads into concrete. We’re clear on that right, **Macgiver**? Your silence may be taken as assent? Yes, that’s what medical evidence is for. The documented wounds are in the right location to be consistent with his story. Do you think the prosecution will be able to dispute this? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/414 "2012-04-22T22:17:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Do you think the prosecution will be able to dispute this? Yes. We have not seen the EMT report yet. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/415 "2012-04-22T22:55:55Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > … The documented wounds are in the right location to be consistent with his story… Being upon his head? And these are documented wounds, you say, as compared with undocumented wounds, which we are not obliged to respect as evidence. This other kind, the documented kind, that there’s the real shit? These wounds, they were documented by whom? > [@](#): > > …Do you think the prosecution will be able to dispute this? I think the prosecution in this case is trying to think of excuses to get out of this political shitstorm. Even if they are one hundred percent ethical and scrupulous, somebody’s going to think they’re lying, and will never vote for them again. I think they will bargain. I think they will show the defense all their evidence, and plea-bargain down to something like manslaughter. Along with a threat of ninety-nine to life in the Huey Newton wing of the Stateville Prison. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/416 "2012-04-22T23:16:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think the prosecution in this case is trying to think of excuses to get out of this political shitstorm. Even if they are one hundred percent ethical and scrupulous, somebody’s going to think they’re lying, and will never vote for them again. > > I think they will bargain. I think they will show the defense all their evidence, and plea-bargain down to something like manslaughter. Along with a threat of ninety-nine to life in the Huey Newton wing of the Stateville Prison. I agree that’s a strong possibility. But my instincts tell me that a conviction is a long shot. I guess it comes down to how much of a gamble Zimmerman wants to make. Manslaughter vs a 10% chance of 2nd degree murder conviction. Do you feel luck? Well, _do you, punk_!? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/417 "2012-04-22T23:23:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I agree that’s a strong possibility. > > But my instincts tell me that a conviction is a long shot. I guess it comes down to how much of a gamble Zimmerman wants to make. Manslaughter vs a 10% chance of 2nd degree murder conviction. Do you feel luck? Well, _do you, punk_!? I think he is banking on the SYG hearing to get out of jail free. If he loses that, I’ll bet he takes a plea deal. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/418 "2012-04-22T23:24:29Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I think they will bargain. I think they will show the defense all their evidence, and plea-bargain down to something like manslaughter. Along with a threat of ninety-nine to life in the Huey Newton wing of the Stateville Prison. Zimmerman finally got himself a smart lawyer, it seems. Manslaughter carries 15 year sentence (or 30 if aggravated). There is no way he’d agree to it on the skimpy-to-none evidence that the prosecution apparently has. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/419 "2012-04-23T20:04:21Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > But the ground will still blot up blood. You won’t get neat, distinct trickle lines if a hard surface is coming in contact with blood over and over again. Not necessarily true. If the impact site itself wasnt the same each time, a new wound would be created. The image looks like 2 distinct wounds, not like hamburger (which would indicate multiple impacts on the same area) > [@](#): > > His head in that pic reminds me of my attempts to do Jason Pollock style paintings. Dribble some paint on an upright canvas and watch it course straight down. Maybe gently wobble the canvas to the side to get a little effect, but it’s still a controlled trickling. Remember, one lifts the head and drives it down. In this case, Zim was fighting him so it would make sense different impact sites would present I would be interested to see the splatter marks on the pavement though. Additionally, he is standing when the pic was taken so the blood would drizzle like presented. Sweat, hair, hair follicles, dirt all would create a dynamic bleeding pattern ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504/420 "2012-04-23T20:14:48Z")
Blood on the concrete? Well, yes, sure, but its like hearing someone claim a unicorn gored him up the butt, and asking to see the brown residue on the horn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-the-trayvon-martin-case/618504.md?page=22)