# Question about Tim Burton's "Alice in Wonderland" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 16, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165 "2010-02-16T04:17:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/1 "2010-02-16T04:17:50Z")
I’m mostly just making sure my geek factor is intact, but based on the several trailers I’ve seen, this seems to be more _Through The Looking Glass_ than _Alice_. Does anyone know if I’m on target? I haven’t yet decided if I want to see it. ---
**Author:** ![MitzeKatze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ad7895/32.png) [@MitzeKatze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MitzeKatze)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/2 "2010-02-16T04:21:55Z")
You are on the right track. It is more of a “return to Wonderland” than a remake of _Alice in Wonderland_. From the [imdb](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1014759/): > [@](#): > > 19-year-old Alice returns to the magical world from her childhood adventure, where she reunites with her old friends and learns of her true destiny: to end the Red Queen’s reign of terror For what it’s worth, that makes me want to see it more than if it was just another “revisioning” of the original. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/3 "2010-02-16T07:35:41Z")
It looks interesting. I suppose having it as a sequel gives them more license to do whatever the hell they want without purists screaming about being faithful to the original. I’m sure they’ll scream anyway. I think I’ll watch it and just think of it as fanfiction. From what I saw of the trailer it doesn’t capture the flavor of the original books at all - it’s just way too Burton-esque. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/4 "2010-02-16T08:18:25Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I think I’ll watch it and just think of it as fanfiction. From what I saw of the trailer it doesn’t capture the flavor of the original books at all - it’s just way too Burton-esque. But what is the flavour of the original books? It seems to have many interpretations from many people. I see it as a nine year old girl’s dreams as she attempts to understand the mystifying world of adults. I am anticipating Tim Burton to have nailed that. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/5 "2010-02-16T12:28:08Z")
I picked up a lot of American McGee from what I’ve seen of the artwork. I haven’t seen a full trailer yet, but my 16-year-old daughter is really looking forward to it. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/6 "2010-02-17T04:37:23Z")
> [@Indyellen](#): > > I’m mostly just making sure my geek factor is intact, but based on the several trailers I’ve seen, this seems to be more _Through The Looking Glass_ than _Alice_. Does anyone know if I’m on target? I haven’t yet decided if I want to see it. As **MitzeKatze** notes, it’s a “return to Wonderland”—but it’s more _Wonderland_ than _Looking Glass_: the Mad Hatter, the Red Queen, and the Cheshire Cat are all from _Wonderland_. > [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I think I’ll watch it and just think of it as fanfiction. From what I saw of the trailer it doesn’t capture the flavor of the original books at all - it’s just way too Burton-esque. It looks no more faithful to the original books than Burton’s _Sleepy Hollow_ was to _its_ “source material.” > [@GuanoLad](#): > > But what is the flavour of the original books? It seems to have many interpretations from many people. > > I see it as a nine year old girl’s dreams as she attempts to understand the mystifying world of adults. I am anticipating Tim Burton to have nailed that. That’s not a bad description. Plus, Lewis Carroll’s books are episodic, parodic, and full of puns and twisted logic and cartoon violence and silliness. I’ve thought that Monty Python would do as good a job as anybody at making a movie faithful to the “flavour” of the original books. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/7 "2010-02-17T06:50:00Z")
> [@MitzeKatze](#): > > You are on the right track. It is more of a “return to Wonderland” than a remake of _Alice in Wonderland_. Eew. That makes me NOT want to see it. I already knew that Tim would have little to do with the original and was OK with that, but that just sounds lame. Wonderland is a different kind of fantasy world than Oz or Narnia. It’s our world seen from a different perspective - one in which games and riddles and nursery rhymes and figures of speech are all literal and logic applies in ways it shouldn’t. It is NOT a setting for epic fantasy. It is not Middle-earth and shouldn’t be treated as such. People in wonderland don’t have “true destinies” they have roles. Alice in “Through the Looking Glass” was “destined” to overcome the Red Queen because she was a pawn. Then the game was over and the pieces went back in the box. Or maybe the Red King woke up. Either way, it was nothing mystical or magic, just the logical conclusion of an absurd premise (that she was a pawn in a game of chess). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/8 "2010-02-17T12:48:05Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > As **MitzeKatze** notes, it’s a “return to Wonderland”—but it’s more _Wonderland_ than _Looking Glass_: the Mad Hatter, the Red Queen, and the Cheshire Cat are all from _Wonderland_. (I gotta correct myself here. The Queen of Hearts, from _Wonderland_, is the one associated with “Off with her head!” The Red Queen is one of the chess-piece characters from _Looking Glass_. It looks like the movie may conflate the two (which isn’t necessarily inappropriate).) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/9 "2010-02-17T13:37:13Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > It is NOT a setting for epic fantasy. It is not Middle-earth and shouldn’t be treated as such. People in wonderland don’t have “true destinies” they have roles. You seem to have extrapolated rather a lot from not very much. Have you seen the trailers? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/10 "2010-02-17T14:03:07Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You seem to have extrapolated rather a lot from not very much. Have you seen the trailers? I agree completely with **Alan Smithee**. The trailers looked to me like they were going for a Narnia-style epic fantasy, with great battles and hero(ine)ism and defeating evil and such—which is not what Carroll’s books were about at all. Although it occurs to me now that the movie might have worked very well as a _parody_ of such epic fantasies. The _Alice_ books are, among other things, parodies—both of adult Victorian society and of the sorts of children’s stories its original readers would have been familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/11 "2010-02-17T14:18:07Z")
On one hand, that reassures me, because I was wondering how the MH had become as dominant a character as presented in the ads/trailers. OTOH, as a HUGE fan of the books (which I envisioned as nothing resembling the Burtonverse), it makes me even less likely to see this. ---
**Author:** ![baronsabato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@baronsabato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/baronsabato)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/12 "2010-02-17T17:23:22Z")
Bah, none of this sounds good. I wouldn’t call myself a “purist” (I love the Disney movie, for example), but I’m a big “Alice” fan. Even though the Disney feature changed the story and elements of the story substantially, they at least “got” the basic tone of the stories, and managed to translate the books into film without sacrificing too much of the uniquely Carrollian humor. It’s hard to do- check out some of the more faithful movies, and you’ll see that they can be pretty dull. However, based on the trailer and the synopsis alone, I don’t know if I could stomach this film. I don’t mind the idea of a “return to Wonderland”, but this looks like it’s got some serious identity issues. Alice in battle armor, fighting the Red Queen?? Big fight scenes between chess pieces?? It just doesn’t capture what I find appealing about the “Alice” books at all. I’d still see it, but I’ll probably have to try and forget that’s supposed to be in some way based on Lewis Carroll’s books. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/13 "2010-03-06T15:52:53Z")
Has anyone seen it? I did, last night, in 3D. I am _not_ a fan of _Alice in Wonderland_ or _Through the Looking Glass_ - it’s been years since I’ve seen the Disney cartoon and I’ve never read the books. I do, however, like Tim Burton. So, FWIW, that’s where I’m coming from. Johnny Depp couldn’t decide whether he wanted to lisp like Willie Wonka, slur a la Jack Sparrow, or have a Scottish brogue. So he did all three. Sometimes at once. Keeping in mind that I know squat about _AiW_ &c, I didn’t recall the Mad Hatter as being a mentor to Alice - which is what he was here. The visual imagery was pretty decent. Some aspects were clunky - the Knave of Hearts (Crispin Glover) was jerky and not very well done in his whole CGIness. I think if I had seen it on flat screen I would not have enjoyed it as much. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/14 "2010-03-06T15:57:37Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > You seem to have extrapolated rather a lot from not very much. Have you seen the trailers? Unless Tim Burton (or whoever the actual screenwriter is) went through the effort of finding the sorts of things that a 19 year old girl would be dealing with, turned those into fantastical/metaphorical versions for her to see and understand why they are silly, then it’s not a sequel to the books and it’s entirely missing the point of the books. Regardless of whether it’s an epic with big battles or not, setting a story in Wonderland and just treating it as a place with funny characters is still going against the meaning of the work. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/15 "2010-03-06T16:19:59Z")
We saw it yesterday. Maybe because it came out on the heals of AVATAR, but the 3D didn’t wow me at all. The film itself was - OK. Some really good moments - quite a few boring moments - and all in all, just OK. Was really thinking and hoping I would like it more. ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/16 "2010-03-07T01:19:12Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > We saw it yesterday. > Maybe because it came out on the heals of AVATAR, but the 3D didn’t wow me at all. The film itself was - OK. > Some really good moments - quite a few boring moments - and all in all, just OK. > Was really thinking and hoping I would like it more. I’ll agree with you. It was OK. The Cheshire Cat was my favorite part of the movie. And that was really because it was my first “new style” 3D movie and I enjoyed his disappearing an reappearing in the background with all the smoke, etc. I read on [MSNBC.com](http://MSNBC.com) that it was shot in 2D and converted to 3D later, so that may be why it seemed average-ish. It also didn’t help that Tweedledee and Tweedledum looked like a guy I used to share an office with. I kept seeing “David” every time I saw them. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/17 "2010-03-07T03:32:27Z")
the knave just looked disproportional. was he supposed to? his head looked to small for his already lankily think body. i think the storyline had promise but was botched - mostly because it was hurried. with some clever rewriting, this movie could have been really good imo. also, depp was overused, and the other characters underused - severely underused. ---
**Author:** ![Baggins111](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@Baggins111](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baggins111)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/18 "2010-03-07T04:04:16Z")
I think the Knave was supposed to look that way. It could have been done better though. To quote **MissTake** it was just “clunky.” Depp _was_ overused. Plus he looked too much like [Frodo](http://totallylookslike.com/2010/01/19/tim-burtons-mad-hatter-totally-looks-like-elijah-wood/) for me. The strange part is that Anne Hathaway’s features were not exaggerated. On the positive side, I think that Mia Wasikowska may have a promising career ahead of her if she picks the right roles. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/19 "2010-03-07T04:23:44Z")
The only thing that irritates me (and I really want to see this) is it probably completely sinks the chance of American McGee’s Alice being finally made. ---
**Author:** ![Serenata67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/serenata67/32/10646_2.png) [@Serenata67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Serenata67)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2010, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165/20 "2010-03-07T04:54:07Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > Has anyone seen it? > > I did, last night, in 3D. I am _not_ a fan of _Alice in Wonderland_ or _Through the Looking Glass_ - it’s been years since I’ve seen the Disney cartoon and I’ve never read the books. I do, however, like Tim Burton. So, FWIW, that’s where I’m coming from. > > Johnny Depp couldn’t decide whether he wanted to lisp like Willie Wonka, slur a la Jack Sparrow, or have a Scottish brogue. So he did all three. Sometimes at once. Keeping in mind that I know squat about _AiW_ &c, I didn’t recall the Mad Hatter as being a mentor to Alice - which is what he was here. > > The visual imagery was pretty decent. Some aspects were clunky - the Knave of Hearts (Crispin Glover) was jerky and not very well done in his whole CGIness. I think if I had seen it on flat screen I would not have enjoyed it as much. I was having issues with his accent, too. I know he’s mad and all, but why the three different dialects? Sometimes he was Scottish, sometimes lispy, sometimes all drunk sounding… I didn’t get it. Why? I’m sure Depp/Burton has a reason, but that reason evades me. Does anyone know? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-tim-burtons-alice-in-wonderland/529165.md?page=2)