# Question about USA (NYC) in the 1910s **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 31, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220 "2012-08-31T03:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/1 "2012-08-31T03:07:05Z")
I’ve been researching my ancestral roots recently. It seems that my great-great grandparents, who immigrated to the US in 1909 and settled in Brooklyn, put down in both the 1910 National census and in the 1915 NYS census that they were 55 years old. I also have what I believe is a picture of them from before they came over (my guess is ~1904) where they look at least 55. They didn’t have jobs by 1915; four children between 18 & 25 provided the income. So, what was the incentive, if any, in 1915 and possibly 1910 to appear younger to either NYS or the US? Or were they just mistrustful of the process? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/2 "2012-08-31T03:56:00Z")
Possibly they didn’t know their date of birth, and the census enumerator made an estimate. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/3 "2012-08-31T15:41:15Z")
Some possibilities: They misunderstood the question and gave the year of their birth - (18)55 - instead of their current age. The census taker misunderstood their answer, possibly if thick accents were involved. An estimate, as \*\*Mr. Downtown \*\*suggests. Other people living at the same address and the census taker got the information crossed up. Don’t trust the way people look in old photos. In my grandparents’ wedding photo, my grandmother looks at least 45, and at least 10 years older than my grandfather. In reality, she was 20, and 10 years younger than him. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/4 "2012-08-31T15:59:01Z")
Maybe they were afraid of being denied entry if they sounded too old; i.e., out of concern that they would soon be unable to work and might become a public charge. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/5 "2012-08-31T16:21:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Maybe they were afraid of being denied entry if they sounded too old; i.e., out of concern that they would soon be unable to work and might become a public charge. They entered in 1909. By 1915 they were long settled. I’d guess the same way kunilou does. There were many mistakes made in old censuses, especially with immigrant families. They could be made on either side. In 1915 enumerators went physically door to door. [Ancestry Library](http://search.ancestrylibrary.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=2703) > [@](#): > > The census form included columns for > > ``` > permanent residence > name > relationship to head of household > color > sex > age > nativity (country) > citizenship (if naturalized, where, when) > occupation > inmates of institutions and infants under one year of age (to record residence when admitted) > > ``` Now do that five million times and be sure to have it done by Tuesday. Maybe your best bet is to check the 1925 NYC census and see what ages are given there. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/6 "2012-08-31T16:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > They didn’t have jobs by 1915; four children between 18 & 25 provided the income The had 4 children, the youngest 18, in 1915, but in 1904 they already look older than 55? I think their hard lives made them look older than they were. That doesn’t explain why they reported the same age 5 years apart, but other posters have provided multiple possibilities for that. ---
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/7 "2012-08-31T17:11:14Z")
Thanks for the responses. > [@bup](#): > > The had 4 children, the youngest 18, in 1915, but in 1904 they already look older than 55? I think their hard lives made them look older than they were. Actually, they had 8 children, 6 of whom were living in 1910. (There’s actually a woman listed on the same census page with 16 children reported). Double-checking, I see that all the children had the same (or +/- 1 yr) age listed on the 1910 & 1915 censuses. The youngest, a girl, was 18 in 1910 and 17 in 1915.:dubious: > [@kunilou](#): > > Don’t trust the way people look in old photos. In my grandparents’ wedding photo, my grandmother looks at least 45, and at least 10 years older than my grandfather. In reality, she was 20, and 10 years younger than him. The other possibility is that the older woman in the picture I’m referring to is from the previous generation, and that the patriarch looks older because of the beard. Names were assigned to the picture, but they may not be accurate. BTW, for those who don’t know, Ancestry’s census pages are free this weekend. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/8 "2012-08-31T17:38:24Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > Possibly they didn’t know their date of birth, and the census enumerator made an estimate. All of my ancestors came thru Ellis Island around the same time as the OP and settled in Brooklyn and Manhattan. I am quite confident that this is how we lost the old country last name and ended up with something quite anglicised. I am sure mistakes were commonly made upon entry, and perhaps when asked again a few years later the immigrant would just say the same thing they did before, to keep from raising eyebrows (whatever we said last time, say it this time). ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/9 "2012-08-31T18:00:25Z")
> [@Mixolydian](#): > > Actually, they had 8 children, 6 of whom were living in 1910. (There’s actually a woman listed on the same census page with 16 children reported). That’s not too unusual. And having 16 children isn’t either. > [@](#): > > Double-checking, I see that all the children had the same (or +/- 1 yr) age listed on the 1910 & 1915 censuses. The youngest, a girl, was 18 in 1910 and 17 in 1915. There could be any number of reasons for that. Including a writing error. You also don’t know who gave the information to the enumerator so the first time could have been wrong. That’s also another reason to have multiple years worth of census records along with other records to ‘prove’ age. Hopefully when you find her in the 1920 and further census you’ll get a better idea of how old she was. It’s too bad they’re not in the 1900 census that gave month and year of birth. > [@](#): > > The other possibility is that the older woman in the picture I’m referring to is from the previous generation, and that the patriarch looks older because of the beard. Names were assigned to the picture, but they may not be accurate. That can happen, unless someone knows for sure then they could have labeled a photo wrong. Unless I can find someone that knew the people and could spot them in a photo I don’t trust what is written on them. That of course might be really hard in this case. You can also go by other things in the photo, how they are dressed, the items in the background, and things like that can help date a photo. > [@](#): > > BTW, for those who don’t know, Ancestry’s census pages are free this weekend. Most should be free at [familysearch.org](http://familysearch.org). I think there are one or two years that are not, but the rest are. Frankly that pisses me off that all census records aren’t free. I can see not being able to search for them, but the images should be since they are owned by the government. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/10 "2012-08-31T18:06:53Z")
There were plenty of mistakes and misundertandings in the immigration process back then. My grandmother and her sisters only knew the day and month of the their birth on the Jewish calender, so they made up new ones. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/11 "2012-08-31T23:17:24Z")
Ok. It’s now or never. Unfortunately it’s a great and well known, and in some ways particularly Jewish joke, but one one of those annoying ones with a Yiddish (or German-gettable) punchline, mandatory for the story. Its translation follows which makes the joke be no fun. Anyway, Three old Jews are sitting around, reminiscing about how they changed their names, but still keeping a vestige of their roots. – My name used to be Chaim Meirowitz. After I came over I changed it to Henry Meyer. – My name before I came over was Moses Rosenberg. When I came over I changed it to Marty Rose. [So now the third guy says] – Well, my name is Sean Fergusson. [General consternation] – This is the name you gave yourself? Who even heard such names in the Old Country! What made you do that? – It was horrible. When my turn came at Ellis Island I was so scared and _vemischt_ [can be ommited==totally scattered], when the guy asked for my name all I could say was “Oy, schon fergessen.” [Punch line: schon vergessen==‘v’ is pronounced with ‘f’ sound in English==in Yiddish, “I’ve forgotten.”] Leo. FWIW ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/12 "2012-09-01T04:02:32Z")
There are a lot of family stories and folk tales about name changes at Ellis Island, but the ships arrived with written manifests that had been filled out at the port of embarkation, by someone who spoke the language of the emigrants. I can’t say there were _never_ changes, truncations, or misunderstandings, but not that many. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/13 "2012-09-01T04:45:36Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > There are a lot of family stories and folk tales about name changes at Ellis Island, but the ships arrived with written manifests that had been filled out at the port of embarkation, by someone who spoke the language of the emigrants. I can’t say there were _never_ changes, truncations, or misunderstandings, but not that many. I get the impression people had an easier time changing their name back then. If you got off the boat and wanted to anglicize your name, or just change it sometime in life for any reason, nobody seemed to object. I doubt you had to show birth certificates to prove your identity since many people didn’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2012, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/14 "2012-09-01T06:17:28Z")
NOBODY liked my joke?☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2012, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/15 "2012-09-03T01:37:39Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > NOBODY liked my joke?☹ I chortled to myself. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Toucanna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Toucanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toucanna)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/16 "2012-09-04T15:26:16Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > NOBODY liked my joke?☹ I did. I LOL’d! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/question-about-usa-nyc-in-the-1910s/633220/17 "2012-09-04T16:49:04Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > NOBODY liked my joke?☹ Leo Rosten is LOL in the great beyond.